Chrysler to Make Hybrids with Hemis (CNNMoney.com)

Increasing mileage from 15 to 19 mpg is a big improvement. In fact, for a given number of miles driven, the same percentage increase of mileage on a low mpg vehicle provides bigger savings of fuel, because the low mpg vehicle uses more fuel for each mile. I applaud any efforts to improve fuel economy. There are legitimate uses for these large beasts, especially towing, but most people that drive them don't need the size and capacity. I suspect the OP's disdain reflects the fact that most drivers would be better suited by switching to a high mileage vehicle such as the Prius, rather than a better mileage version of a gas guzzler.

Tom

 

I also applaud ANY effort to improve fuel economy, especially for these worst offenders. However, as the article acknowledges, I think the market for powerful, high torque trucks will be a tough sell. IMO, the people who are in the market for one of these trucks are not likely the type of people who are willing to 1.) sacrifice power 2.) pay a premium on top of an already expensive machine. People buy the name "Hemi" because it represents power and strength. Attaching the word "Hybrid" will compromise that for many. Sure, they will sell a few to "green" farmers and the like but I don't think this is a wise demographic for Chrysler to introduce themselves into the hybrid marketplace. Large truck market would be better served going in the direction on flex-fuel and bio-diesel.

I think this hybrid-hemi is destined to fail giving Chrysler the excuse to give up on the technology under the pretense that consumers don't want hybrids when the fact is Chrysler just doesn't get it.

 

Here's a juicy quote from that article:

"Both SUVs are currently available with a smaller, less powerful V8 engine but the smaller engine does not provide better fuel economy, according to EPA estimates."

Whaaaaaaaaat?

If a smaller engine is unable to provide better fuel economy, then the vehicle is simply TOO HEAVY!

The curb weight on a new, non-hybrid Durango is 4,671 lbs. Add a few hun for the hybrid system, and we're up to two and a half tons, plus...the same weight as my 1966 Lincoln Continental ragtop! And I think that my Lincoln is, dimentionally, a larger vehicle...with a 462-cubic inch V8, completely automatic convertible top, metal tonneau cover, glass rear window, and a decklid that is raised by hydraulic cylinders!

In the case of the Durango, this is a LOT of weight, especially considering the advancements in computer modelling and structural design we've experienced over the last few decades.

Want better mileage? Remove weight before adding complexity to the driveline.

 

Couldn't have said that better myself. However, the execs and 'bean counters' know that the all-mighty image is more important than advances in body panel design and decreasing weight in non-critical areas. For its size a Durango sure doesn't look heavy - especially when you take into consideration all the plastic it has!

 

Never again, will I buy a Dodge/Chrysler vehicle... engine hold up - everything falls off prior to the 5 year payment term... I had bought a brand new car from dodge - 3 days later the stick shift broke off in my hands - NOT A GOOD THING... NEVER WILL I BUY A DODGE AGAIN... cheaply made products... been there, done that - learned that lesson!!! If Americans made QUALITY products (if you can find any American products anymore) I'd buy them in a heartbeat... I work WAY too hard for my money - I want QUALITY for the little money I have to sp :angry: end. Sorry.

 

The Prius engine is also is a pentroof "Hemi", like many other engines. There should be a Hemi badge on back to show our 76 hp prowess.

 

The whole "Hemi" thing is just a amrketing gimmick, this is no different than Toyota doing a V8 hybrid in the LS600hL.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr.Vanvandenburg @ Apr 30 2007, 06:54 PM) [snapback]432959[/snapback]</div>

Toyota's hybrid Hemi, has what, 5-6 years head start on the Chrysler? 90% of cars on the road are hemis, now. Chrysler wasn't the first, just the loudest to market them. Alfa Romeo has had them since the 30's, even Deusenberg in the 20's. Not such a big deal.

 

It sounds like an oximoron to me, Hemi hybrids.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Apr 30 2007, 09:48 PM) [snapback]432993[/snapback]</div>

Agreed to a point. The ls600hL is a rocket though. Faster then the none hybrid model. Maybe the hemi will be the same?

But as others have said I don't think people that are looking for the HEMI experience necessarily cares about hybrid technology... At least not now... and once you start to care about things like hybrid then 19MPG will probably make you look for another car....

This is how I ended up with a Prius:

Was thinking about buying a Volvo Station Wagon
Heard on the radio (PBS) and "add" for the Hybrid Highlander and how its MPG was better then the VOLVO
Started to look into it and was long considering the highlander
The more I looked at it the more I reconsidered my needs.
Once MPG became a factor it didn't make sense to drive such a large car.
The prius became more and more attractive and finally I bought one
I haven't looked back since

I don't think I'm alone in this process... So the highlander hybrid pays a role but if you don't have a smaller more efficient hybrid you will still loose many sells.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Apr 30 2007, 05:03 PM) [snapback]432770[/snapback]</div>

IMO Chrysler is missing the boat. Our A.W.D. POWERFUL Lexus hybrid S.U.V. with a 'V' SIX gets 25mpg lead footing it, and over 31 using pulse and glide. Chrysler chose to make their hybrid entry vehicle a low mileage vehicle by using a V8 hemi. That shows where their heads are.

When gas hits $4 gallon average in a short while, what numbnut will give a rip about having ANY vehicle that gets under 20mpg ... or that it can blast their 30' trailer to the top of the mountain pass ahead of the pack? Illogical. Period.

 

I know this thread is about pickup trucks, but I don't understand why car companies feel they need to provide inefficient V6 and V8 power and then hybridize the technology to make it more fuel efficient.

What car manufacturers need to do is start designing and marketing cars for the purpose they are actually used -- we don't need tremendous performance envelopes, we need a small car with enough room and horsepower to carry a family of 4 or 5 in reasonable comfort from point A to point B in as efficient a way as possible, with enough power to drive at the legal speed limit and pull-out acceleration when needed. We as a nation need to understand that cars should not be a status symbol -- designing status symbol cars is ruining our planet. What we lack in power in our own lives should not be compensated for in our choice of transportation vehicle. In order to comply with US speed limits but also provide enough power for acceleration and emergencies, I don't think anyone needs more than 100-120 hp for a 4-door sedan. Cut the weight, cut the V6/V8/Vx crap, cut the 5 million horsepower crap that is absolutely useless for anything except marketing to big egos, and let's start busting out cars that get 100 mpg.

 

I fell in love with the PT Cruiser when it first came out, and when it came time to buy, I seriously looked at it. Then I looked at the gas mileage.

20 mpg.

:blink:


Buh-bye, PT Cruiser.

If Chrysler had built a Hybrid PT, I probably would have bought it. Your loss, Dr. Z.

Me and my Prius are very happy now, thankyouverymuch.

 

Hey, Pinto Girl, does that '66 ragtop have suicide doors? You know, the rear doors that open backward, with the hinge at the rear?

So are you planning to have a motorcade down Van Ness sometime?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ May 1 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]433277[/snapback]</div>

Plenty of people. Remember the cost of gas has already TRIPLED and these vehicles are still selling strong, the growth from $3 to $4 is nowhere near as large as the growth we've already seen in the price of gas.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusBoyAZ @ May 1 2007, 12:24 PM) [snapback]433278[/snapback]</div>

I'll use real estate as an analogy only because I also am a real estate agent. Do you only sell small homes under 1000 square feet and condos? Or do you also sell homes that most people on here would consider excessive in size and environmental footprint? When you market a listing do you completely ignore all the quality and vanity items of a home and just market the bare bones of its construction? You and I are just as guilty of marketing to egos as the car companies are.

Look, people are what they are. You can either spend your time trying to change people which is extremely difficult if not impossible, or you can try to find a way to give them what they want AND dial in as much environmental responsibility as possible. Cars have been an American passion, dare I say an obsession, for a century. They are intertwined into the framework of our culture, suddenly saying that carmakers should not market cars as a status symbol is like saying we should no longer market water as wet, or that we should no longer market food as delicious. Cars ARE status symbols in America, no way to get around that. Hybrids them selves sell so well because they are a status symbol, its "in" to own a Hybrid.

Americans, for the most part, will not purchase cars that do not fulfill their needs be those needs for space, status, or performance. *I* would not buy a Toyota Prius for myself, I just wouldn't. Or a Camry Hybrid, or a Highlander Hybrid. They're too boring and plain for my taste. The question is would you prefer me to drive a BMW 550 that gets 18MPG or would you prefer me to drive a GS450h that gets 27? I WOULD purchase the hybrid option of a car I wanted if it were available provided that car had what I was looking for in a car.

So, carmakers can either focus on hybrid cars that America will not buy, or they can focus on cars that Americans will buy that happen to be hybrids.

Also, don't always assume a larger more powerful car is worse on gas. My Lexus ES for instance gets worse mileage than the larger V8 Lexus LS of the same generation because my ES is so underpowered. The big V8 doesn't work nearly as hard and is significantly better on gas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ May 2 2007, 11:43 AM) [snapback]433974[/snapback]</div>

Funny you would use a BMW as one of your examples. Recently, the marketing guru's noted that among folks w/ 6 figure incomes and up, there are WAY more folks buying the Prius, than the BMW ... which is noted as being the WOO WOO car for high price and great handling (unfortunatly BMW is also known for poor reliability, as recently pointed out in consumer reports ... especially comparred to the Prius).

I have faith that U.S. citizens of ALL wage brackets will in kind, follow suit ... namely get "smart" and see through marketing B.S. ... that speed / power / etc are NOT important symbols of "who we are" (as in who we are is a bunch of shallow egocentrics). Hopefully, we will see that many europeans got it right in the first place ... manifesting values that what is more important is saving fuel for future generations, or saving fuel to stick it to al-queda, or saving fuel by investing in tomorrows technology ... rather than be thought of as the gluttonous know- it-all ... extravagant american SOB's.

Our neighborhood is chock full of 7 figure homes and up. Less and less (I believe) of us "upper crust" folks are buying into the car image thing. More and more, the car-power-image thing, is becoming associated with less-savy people. Ergo the example of the BMW v Prius. There are multiple hybrids on every street around us ... and the kind of thinking that lead many in our neighborhood to buy sensibly, I'm hoping, is trickling down.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ May 2 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]434024[/snapback]</div>

Indeed, it is very "in" to drive a Prius. The reason these people are buying Priuses is not because they want to save fuel or be environmentally responsible (whether they say that or not), its the same image and ego motivated buying process that prompted these people to buy BMWs before they traded them in on Priuses. That will change, SUVs were in now they're not for instance. Its all cyclical. In the early 90s people were trading their BMWs in on Ford Explorers, the market is a finnicky thing. In my business I'm around a lot of people that make a LOT of money, I know a lot of people who bought Prius' and nobody bought them for economy or the earth. I also know several people who have now traded their Prius' in on GS450hs and RX400hs because they liked the hybrid moniker, but missed the luxury car.

You say that more 6 figure salary buyers are buying Priuses than luxury cars, I gotta see a cite on that because its not true. They sell what, 80,000 Prius a year? What % of those are to people with high salaries (I don't consider anything lower than a family with a combined income of $250,000 or more high income, in today's day and age a family earning $100k is not rich)? They sold more than 300,000 Lexus cars last year brand wide and enjoyed brand growth of something like 19%. Not sure about BMW numbers, they're less, but they're way more than 80k units.

I have years of experience in the auto industry from a marketing standpoint and believe me, high income people still love luxury cars.

 

I did some digging. I used to be able to access some average income figures by car make and model but its not as easy as it used to be. I did find a figure of $92,000 for the Prius, and $216,000 for the RX400h. So, there's no doubt the luxury brand is being purchased by people with higher incomes. According to Forbes the average income of a BMW owner is $148,000, also higher than the Prius.