1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Prius to the rescue!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by hobbit, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    New England has been hammered by a fairly vicious rain/wind
    storm over the last couple of days. In spite of that, I had
    been working an event all day and maybe 15 minutes after finally
    getting in from it and expecting a quiet evening at home catching
    up, I got this call from a friend. The gist was, "I've been
    notified that my basement is flooding and the power is out so
    the sump pump can't run, and I'm still on my two week vacay
    in ... Scotland." A tree had apparently come down across a
    bunch of wires up the street, and power had been out for over
    a day since the power company has been going *nuts* trying to
    fix the widespread damage from last night.
    .
    The person caretaking for the house wasn't sure what to do, and
    there was no prognosis on when the power was going to be restored.
    The owner had a "crazy idea" that if there were any charged UPSes
    kicking around the house that weren't running computers [and thus
    already long since discharged], they might be enough to power the
    pump for a while. "Yeah, for about ten minutes, maybe" I said,
    envisioning your typical sump pump with a fairly massive 120VAC
    motor atop a pipe and float valve assembly. Not enough to pump
    down the likely four or more inches of water that had already
    accumulated, and this house does *not* have a small footprint.
    .
    In further discussion all he could remember about the pump was
    a slightly odd mode of operation and the number "1800", but upon
    plugging "sump pump" and "1800" into google, the first hit was the
    Rule 1800 submersible marine/utility pump. "That's it!" he said,
    and a little more link-chasing revealed that this little fella only
    draws 100 watts when running. It doesn't have a float valve, it
    simply tries pumping every 2 minutes or so and if it detects that
    there is no water load, shuts down again. I realized that my big
    ol' UPS, the one that can also plug into the car's 12V system, shown
    at http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/pix/prius-ferrups.jpg could
    probably hold up that load. This UPS is only good for about 400
    watts -- built for long runtime, not high power. It has 66 amp-
    hours of 12V lead-acid goodness inside, as well as being able to
    either be maintained off the Prius or *jump* the car if its aux
    battery was down. So I coordinated with the caretaking person,
    loaded up the UPS and a bunch of power hose, and tooled off into
    the gathering night.
    .
    I backed the car up to the door and left it powered on, fired up the
    UPS and went inside trailing a long AC cord with a CF-lamped clip
    light plugged in as worklight in the basement. The water level was
    more like six or eight inches by now especially over near where the
    sump hole is, and was just about to kiss the bottom of the oil burner
    motor on the boiler. Pulled the power cord over near the pump and
    plugged it in; the pump gave a little kick and started up. We went
    outside to check the outflow; it looked fairly anemic and didn't
    seem promising to get the basement emptied in a reasonable timeframe
    or even hold its own against any more water coming in through the
    natural fieldstone foundation. But said friend had a couple of
    larger pumps, model 2800 [which, in the meantime, we had found
    indicates gallons per hour capacity] sitting around down there that
    he hadn't adapted to the system yet. These only claim to pull 1.6
    amps apiece, or about 200 watts. We fooled around with the hose
    fittings and couldn't quite see how to connect things, but then
    I realized that the right-angle output elbow comes completely off
    leaving a stub that only needed a few wraps of tape to fit inside
    the hose perfectly, totally leakproof after the clamp was tightened
    down. So we fed the hose out the basement window and away from
    the foundation, and I dropped this additional pump down into the
    icky, oil-slicked swill and plugged it in, fully expecting it to
    overload the UPS and for both pumps and my light to go off within
    about 20 seconds. So I waited for that.
    .
    And waited.
    .
    And waited. And it didn't happen. The UPS was holding up the
    whole schlemiel, and the car was in turn holding the UPS up and
    simply running intermittently to keep the HV level just above the
    usual two-pink-bars when you're sitting in Park for a long time.
    And this new pump was *way* better than the first one. Pretty
    impressive, actually, that either one of them could push a fairly
    hefty volume of water up against eight feet of pressure on only
    that much power. So now all we had to do was wait for the level
    to drop, if it would. There was a visible difference about 20
    minutes later, and in maybe another hour and a half [punctuated
    by more phone calls and a food break], the water level was down
    to the sump well and I could go around the foundation and try to
    see where it was coming in and how badly. A little trickle down
    the wall under where the water main comes in, and a small upwelling
    over in another corner ... but nothing huge, and at this point we
    were back to only the smaller pump which could hold its own against
    that small continuing influx. It would run long enough to empty
    the sump well, detect that it was sucking air and shut off, and
    then come back on for another run about two minutes later.
    .
    But now the problem was how to maintain this state. It's not like I
    really wanted to leave my car powered up in his driveway all night.
    But after a little amp-hour math I realized that the UPS could
    probably run that pump continuously on its own internal batteries
    for six or seven hours, and at the 25 or 30% duty cycle it was now
    running at to empty the sump well and shut down again that would
    easily last overnight. [There's a reason this thing weighs about
    100 pounds... it's full of lead and iron!] So I lugged the UPS out
    of the car into his kitchen and left the pump plugged into it, and
    headed home. Hopefully that will keep the water from rising.
    The UPS is plugged into the wall, so if power comes back it will
    simply feed through and continue powering the pump while recharging
    the internal batteries.
    .
    On the way out I observed that the power guys were up the street
    working on the downed tree, so power might actually be back tonight.
    It's just started raining again, though, with another two days
    of this crap predicted, so this might be, uh, interesting.
    .
    Regardless, there's probably a fairly nice bottle of single-malt
    with my name on it now.
    .
    _H*
     
  2. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

    Joined:
    May 3, 2005
    4,096
    82
    13
    Location:
    USA | Oregon | Portland area | 97004 |
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Great story! Congratulations for being so ingenious! Your friend called the right person!
     
  3. Cheap!

    Cheap! New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    1,157
    7
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Apr 17 2007, 12:50 AM) [snapback]424482[/snapback]</div>
    There should be TWO bottles of single-malt. One to do the job and one for backup if things get to deep.
     
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    18,058
    3,075
    7
    Location:
    Northern Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    We use four of those pumps (slightly different model) as the electric bilge pumps on our boat. They are backed up by an electric diaphragm pump, a fixed 18" manual diaphragm pump, and a portable 8" manual diaphragm pump. Then there is always a bucket...can't have too many pumps when the water starts rising.

    Great story.

    Tom
     
  5. Ichabod

    Ichabod Artist In Residence

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    1,794
    19
    0
    Location:
    Newton, MA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    That sounds like a story for your local newspaper. You should submit it with the following headline (and maybe the subhead too):

    Single-Malt Scotch Saves Prius Owner
     
  6. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    As I suspected, the power's back on this morning, but we're going to
    leave the UPS in place for another day or so just in case. The heat
    came back on without incident. We've warned the owner that everything
    in the fridge is probably gonzo by now, but if that and minor
    remaining sogginess in the basement is all they have to worry about
    on return, then I guess we did the right thing. There isn't much
    stored in the basement since it does tend to be wet anyways, and he's
    had prior incidents which *did* require disassembly and drying-out of
    the furnace parts. But not this time.
    .
    _H*
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,562
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    110 vac-equipped Prius are awfully handy when the house power fails, and it can be set up even by people who are not electrical experts (as Hobbit is). Each of these success stories probably gets a few more folks doing it.

    A parked Prius has about the same fuel consumption as those dandy little Honda 1 KW gasoline-fired generators (I guesstimated once in a campground, while both were in service). Both are admirably quiet. The Honda gen lacks a catalytic converter though, and we know what that means...

    Even using a pure sine wave inverter, the Prius kilowatt costs less to set up.
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,193
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tochatihu @ Apr 17 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]424608[/snapback]</div>
    Got any suggestions on what parts to get and instructions on how one would install this...you know, for us non-electrical experts?


    And would a 2.5kw inverter like this one work too?
    http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-invert...model=2500gp01#

    Here's a 1kw for $79...good deal or would you recommend something else...if so, what and why?
    http://www.theinverterstore.com/the-invert...?model=pwrb1000

    What amperage limits, where/how do you connect? (ie direct to 12v or via the power outlets?)
     
  9. M. Oiseau

    M. Oiseau 6sigma this

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    270
    3
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 17 2007, 08:58 AM) [snapback]424610[/snapback]</div>
    I'm with Evan; I'd like to know.

    I read that there's a 100 amp system limit for the Prius. Is this true and does it apply to the 12V battery tree? Evan, if this is correct, then we'd roughly be limited to a 1,200 watt max output inverter, plus I would guess we would want around 20% safety factor cushion so we never approach the 100 amp limit, leaving us with a 1,000 watt inverter.

    I hate asking for this info if it's already been covered, but I'm having difficulty finding details with site searches. So, please forgive us. :)
     
  10. xcel

    xcel New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    3
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Apr 17 2007, 07:21 AM) [snapback]424559[/snapback]</div>
    Hi Ichabod:

    ___Hobbit's story made the news this morning in at least one "outlet" with some nice pics of Hobbit, his Prius II and his UPS ;)

    Home Page News or more specifically One of our own - Prius saves the planet. One house at a time?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    9,157
    3,562
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    One ties heavy cable into the line near the 12 volt battery. Here I use a 60 amp ANL fuse as 'sacrificial' before the Prius' main fuse. In other installations (like Bob Wilson's), full trust is placed in the added inverter's own fusing.

    Given the above concern, any inverter much larger than 1 KW represents extra expense for capacity one cannot access. Our departed friend Andy Roberts held that with a larger 12 volt battery, a larger inverter could be safely supported, but I do not understand that well enough to have an opinion.

    In modified sine wave inverters, a kilowatt is going to cost about $100. That increases to $300 at least, for pure sine wave inverters. Sometimes refurbished Xantrex inverters show up on ebay, and I fight the temptation to upgrade. But ebay is a good place to find ANL (fuse) hardware for cheap.

    For more flexibility, get one with remote control option and rig up a dashboard switch.

    For fun, install a 110vac outlet on the backside of the center console, under the cupholders. Cook a crockpot meal on your next long trip.

    In at least one 'outlet' - good pun, Xcel.