Should I keep running e85

Are you talking about E15 (15% ethanol)? The Prius is not made to run on E85; only flex-fuel vehicles are. For one thing, I'm sure you would destroy the bladder in the gas tank in no time.

 

The benefits of ethanol are so dubious at this point that only a major breakthrough, like a switch to sugar cane or cellulose-derived ethanol, would convince me to support it.

Personally I would not use it. You could redirect your efforts and money into optimally insulating your house, fluorescent bulbs, solar energy, etc.

 

Is it not true the "alcohol in the ethanol has a tendency to dry out many of the gaskets, seals and lines when used? If this is factual, then the mod's required to bring the vehicle into an operational mode could be a real hurt, in more ways than one. The approach to insulate the house and use florescent light bulbs would seem more viable concept.

 

<_< I think Evan is right... sort of a strange post. Could it be intended to stiumlate 'conversation?'

Insofar as damage to hoses and gaskets, it would not be likely to show up immediately but over continued use of E85. Can you imagine the costs of replacing deteriorated hoses and gaskets, even if you could?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sithlord_master @ Apr 14 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]423272[/snapback]</div>

I have been using E85 frequently over the past 14 months of owning my Prius. I have had no problems, other than the lesser mpg as you also mentioned. Since I don't always fill my tank at the same time/place, I cannot always get E85 so I sometimes get regular old gasoline. While the Prius may not be optimized to run on high ethanol content fuel mixes, it runs OK nevertheless. The key to success in energy independence is NOT using only one source/form of energy...not nuclear alone...not solar alone...not coal alone and not gasoline alone. Ethanol is by no means the solution to Mideast dependence on oil, but like hybrids it will reduce our importation until we can find additional western sources of oil as well as develop infrastructure for alternate technologies such as hydrogen fuel cells, total electric vehicles, solar augmented vehicles and so on. I have found my Prius to be more robust and better engineered than many give it credit for. My mileage is about what most folks average on here unless I've run several consecutive tanks of E85 in which case the mileage goes down to the approximate mpg you've experienced. I think if more folks tried the EtOH blends they'd find that they're not the problem that rumor and innuendo seem to suggest. My car runs fine.

 

This has nothing to do with the arguments about whether ethanol is a viable source of energy or not. Using E85 in a vehicle that was not designed for it will result in damage to gaskets, hoses, etc. My guess is that it would be VERY expensive to repair in a Prius, and your warranty will not cover it. If you want to use E85, buy a flex-fuel vehicle. Here's a list.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sithlord_master @ Apr 14 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]423272[/snapback]</div>

No.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Macomb @ Apr 14 2007, 04:09 PM) [snapback]423336[/snapback]</div>

You may continue & continue & continue to run E85 in your Prius . . . 'till your car stops running. To put it bluntly, you'd have to me a few sandwitches short of a picnic, to continue using E85 . . a few cans short of a six pac, not the sharpest knife in the drawer . . . a taco short of a combonation plate, a few bricks short of a block wall ~ . . . Is that plain enough?

 

I always start out assuming the OP is sincere. So I was interested in reading this thread, even though E85 is not available here.

At any rate, I can contribute the following:

Energy content of ethanol = 21.1 MJ/L
Energy content of gasoline=32 MJ/L

Do the math and you can see the reason for the apparent reduced fuel economy. It isn't an -actual- loss in fuel economy, it's a reduction in MPG. I suspect, if tuned correctly, the engine is still using the energy available with the same efficiency.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(David Beale @ Apr 14 2007, 07:17 PM) [snapback]423391[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you. The energy density of E85 is less than 100% gasoline. In my response to the original posting, I stated that I've received significantly lowered MPG. Perhaps it's a bit less cost effective, but it's not all I run in the Prius, plus alternate energy sources should be economically stimulated. My Prius is running fine--I'm very impressed with the tremendous technology in this automobile. I paid about the same for my Prius that I did for my 1995 Bonneville. The cargo carrying capacity is actually as good or better than the Pontiac and I'm sure there's greater load flexibility. Since I'm in a snowy region of NYS, I have found it to handle adequately in the snow--even 8" deep snow, with the stock tires, which I agree, I'm not a fan of the stocks. I will replace them with one of the preferred tires written about on this SIG when they're worn out.

 

Yo, macomb: be sure to post when your Prius stops running and tell us the price of the out-of-warranty repair.

 

There is a reason why flex-fuel vehicles have stainless steel fuel lines...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Macomb @ Apr 14 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]423396[/snapback]</div>

I think maybe the other guys are being too subtle for you:

THE PRIUS IS NOT DESIGNED TO HANDLE E85. PERIOD. IT WILL SLOWLY EAT UP YOUR GAS LINE/TANK/ETC.

Are you sure you're not using E10 or E15? Those are much more commonly available.

 

Just like your liver, a non-E85 vehicle will suffer slow death as a result of alcohol abuse. Call Toyota and see what they have to say about using E85 in this car.

Irrespective of whether or not you should use E85, I don't see the appeal. I want max range per tank. With this much less ooomph per gal, it would have to cost 1/2 what gas does before I'd be interested, even if my Prius could take the stuff without suffering long-term damage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tyrin @ Apr 14 2007, 08:54 PM) [snapback]423466[/snapback]</div>

I haven't looked in the Manual yet but, I thought the Prius should only run on E10 not E15 and definately not recommended for E85.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ekpolk @ Apr 14 2007, 11:40 PM) [snapback]423481[/snapback]</div>

Apparently some of you did not read my post. The reason one would use E85 is it's less expensive, its use stimulates the alternate fuel market and reduces the demand (albeit a very tiny amount right now) for regular gasoline. I do not run E85 in every tankful, but I have used it in more than a few tanks--it is not widely available as a fueling option here in NYS.

My car runs smoothly and has not displayed the check engine light even once, though I believe that that light could appear as a result of using E85. It IS E85 that I've run as well as E15 once or twice--I DO know what I'm buying. I do not anticipate any problems with E85 use on a non-full time basis. Modern materials are better than that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Macomb @ Apr 15 2007, 11:15 AM) [snapback]423605[/snapback]</div>

I think they all read your posts and understand your position. These people are just trying to tell you that running E85 in a non flex-fuel vehicle is a bad idea, even if only done on occasion. It's your car; do as you wish, but don't be surprised if you have some premature systems failure.

As for modern materials being better than that, I feel compelled to point out that your modern materials may be incredibly good when used in the environment for which they were designed, but may fail miserably when used outside of specifications (this is usually called misuse). E15 and E85 both contain ethanol, but the concentration is much higher in E85. Doubling the concentration of a solvent doesn't mean that wear also doubles; in many cases in increases dramatically. Take mixed gas regulators as an example, such as SCUBA regulators. Some divers use gas with an increased percentage of oxygen. When they do this, they have to use regulators especially prepared for this use. A normal regulator will not just wear out sooner, it will fail catastrophically. The same thing has happened with fiberglass fuel tanks used in boats. At one time, fiberglass tanks were considered the best money could buy, but then the fuel industry started putting alcohol into fuel. The fiberglass tanks can't tolerate any alcohol. Many boat owners are now facing very large costs to have tanks removed and replaced, plus damage to engines and fuel systems.

Once again, though, it's your car. It's an interesting experiment, and I'll be fascinated to see how it turns out, but I'm not going to try it with my Prius. Keep us informed.

Tom


Tom