BT Tech Stiffening plate

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Apr 12 2007, 07:49 PM) [snapback]422258[/snapback]</div>

Sy - I believe you. And, ... I don't even own the plate (yet). I guess all that "Long Island negativity" hasn't rubbed off on me yet.

Kidding aside - for everyone out there... LIPOG is a great group of folks. I make the 2 hour drive down from CT when I can to take join in their meets. They've been welcoming, generous, informative, and just plain fun to spend an afternoon with.

I still want to do the experiment I proposed last night. - Not because I need the proof before making the purchase. - But because I firmly believe in the scientific method. And frankly, I think it would be fun. Also, I love the idea of one graph being able to say more about this issue than 19 pages of... well... whatever this is.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(syclone @ Apr 12 2007, 07:49 PM) [snapback]422258[/snapback]</div>

Sy! You're killing me, man! Just hit me over the head with a BT plate and put me out of my misery. :wacko: This is a great debate waiting to be explained by SCIENCE! Let's discuss over a beer.

"Happy is he who gets to know the reasons for things."
Virgil (70-19 BCE) Roman poet.

Don't Worry Be Happy

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyconrad @ Apr 11 2007, 09:35 PM) [snapback]421801[/snapback]</div>

Sorry that I'm late participating in this debate regarding Brian's BT Plate.

I was right under Fire Engineer's lifted car during our LIPOG meet at Huntington Toyota, next and facing the Toyota engineer, indicating that the "thicker bracing plate" is not fasten to a structural chassis part, so having it stiffen is a matter of choice with no positive handling gain, under his experience and knowledge. His position withing the Toy. USA Co is the regional hands on troubleshooter engineer for the Prius and Hybrids covering NJ, CT and NY states.

I do not own an original BT plate, instead I made my own from a piece of Al T6 grade, I traced the holes alignment from another LIPOG member plate, didn't look as nice but served the purpose of replacement at 27 bucks. After driving it for month and a half and having and extra 465 Lbs on my PHEV conversion, never felt a difference in handling, nor better or worst. So "it" came out and kept driving with the original one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 12 2007, 10:42 PM) [snapback]422353[/snapback]</div>

Evan, I removed mine weeks before the meet and my findings in this thread today evening.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Apr 11 2007, 09:43 PM) [snapback]421939[/snapback]</div>

Actually, I tend to believe that the BT Tech plate provides a stiffening effect(even if it is not mounted to a structural part of the chassis). The purpose for my post was to offer some form of achieving validation of that concept by examining Toyota's decision to mount the OEM bracket where they chose to (in two contexts: 1.) to even mount a bracket and b.) why they chose the specific spot to mount the bracket).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Apr 12 2007, 11:28 PM) [snapback]422372[/snapback]</div>

The OEM bracket may be there to improve the rigidity of the passenger safety cage in a side crash or rollover accident. Just a wild guess, I'm not an engineer...

 

I'm going by sheer memory here.... but wasn't "BobZ" banned for persistently trashing the BT Plate without merit or was it for other reasons too, or both?
I didn't do much dialouge with him....

The reason I bring this up is because it seems most everyone that has a problem with it is from that same Long Island club that Bob Z either got started or was a primary leader in recently and doesn't even own the plate nor ever has?

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.. "I know you will!" :lol:
I know there are a few rare exceptions....

I'm not sure why the vehement poisoning about the plate has gone on there, but I do remember Bob had quite a following of people equally committed to defend him as his bitterness grew intense.

Its interesting that the bunch that seems the most paranoid about "mass hypnosis" may the the same bunch that has fallen prey to it in the past with Bob's past questionable leadership?

Just guessing of course!

My point is that when someone posts against the plate and they carry the Long Island logo, it instantly causes me to question the credibility of their statements as being without tremendous bias from the Long Island meetings. There was allot of bitterness voiced openly back when Bob was banned, and I can only guess what was said behind closed doors.....It seems nothing has changed as the same crowd still persist in thier battle to defame the plate without buying one.

The only person that has bought one has liked it?.. amazing?
When I first heard that about Syclone, I was immediately suspicious he was too good to be true and that he too was up to no good. But so far, it appears he is just a man who is "man enough" to step out and say his "true impressions" rather than follow the blind momentum of his peers.... to me, that shows the sign of a true leader..... one that "leads" rather than follows blindly. Something to think about?

At any rate, I think it would be healthy to try and be fair and reasonable in assessing the plate if one has not yet purchased it and give those who have a break and possible benifit of a doubt before prejudgeing.

The one gentleman put his own plate on and noticed no difference... although he too is from the Long Island club, I give him the benifit of a doubt and trust his statement is honest.

Daniel has suggested taking the plate on and off and letting someone drive and see if they can accurately tell the difference... that sounds reasonable too.

But any test can be shot full of holes... whether it turns out Pro plate or against it.... but if it can be done in the spirit of fun and fairness it may have a chance.

Just beware, many will see any attempt as an opportunity to be deceptive and dishonest as many who have volunteered to go to that trouble have already openly prejudged and condemned those who have already chosen it... so thier report will not be very credible.

In fact, anybody who takes on this challenge, needs to have credibility with all parties concerned to be believable.....

Good luck! B)

Seems the only way to really know is to just try it yourself and take a chance!

 

One day some manufacturer will develope a good sub frame connector and put all this arguemeant to rest.

 

I know I said that I would no longer post on this thread, but I just became aware of a wonderful Priuschat feature - you can choose to ignore all posts from an individual!

Go to My Controls then Manage Ignored Users.

Because of your unfounded bias and ridiculous :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyconrad @ Apr 13 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]422559[/snapback]</div>

I think you've noticed I have allot to say.. just nothing you want to hear.

To impress my point... Why should I or anyone else expect the long Islanders to believe people they don't know if they cannot even believe "Syclone" one of thier own who used to be as negative as themselves but had the guts to at least try it out and was pleasantly surprised against his biased opinion set by the club out there?

It appears you have your fingers in your ears and purposely are not open to the possibility of being wrong?

Are my assumptions really "unfounded and redicoulous"?.... Based on your responses, you have no mission or agenda other than to criticize what you don't understand.

I keep waiting, but it appears sir, you are the one with nothing useful to say! :lol:

What is it your so afraid of anyway?
Do you not have the money?..
Are you afraid to "lose" the money?

I could understand if you had something to stand on and owned and tried the plate and were negative, but I fear you will not be so fortunate as Syclone, as you appear to love blinders on your eyes and fingers in your ears, nor do you have the courage he had to face your fears and step out into the great unknown!.....

Since this is important enough to you to keep posting and make it an issue.. what is your beef?..again, what are you afraid of?

I know 165.00 bucks is allot of money to lose... especially if you had to take out a loan to get it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(charliem @ Apr 13 2007, 06:24 AM) [snapback]422533[/snapback]</div>

Check out Tom's Rear Suspension Member Brace. It uses the same connection points, plus a few additional ones. It costs significantly more. The weather is warming up, and I should have a chance to install Tom's upgrade and see what that does.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Apr 13 2007, 07:56 AM) [snapback]422601[/snapback]</div>

Aren't you concerned about being flamed? Or, having your comments taken out of context?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Apr 13 2007, 10:56 AM) [snapback]422601[/snapback]</div>

Good luck on the install.The price is little steep but if it preforms it's worth the time and money.I had in mind a connector that would go from front to rear or corner to corner like i had on my camaro and that only cost around 275.00.I don't have a problem cornering just in hyway crosswinds. Let us know how it works out.Good luck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nyconrad @ Apr 13 2007, 09:17 AM) [snapback]422559[/snapback]</div>

How incredibly, incredibly useful. Thank you Conrad!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(danatt @ Apr 12 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]422339[/snapback]</div>

I'm looking forward to hearing the results of any test the LI group does. I think having a group of you there, some with plate and some without, will lend credence to your test, whichever way the results come out.

Thanks for taking on this challenge!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ken Stewart @ Apr 12 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]422217[/snapback]</div>

Brian works on Corvettes! I knew there was a reason I liked him.

I have to admit this has been an interesting thread to get spun up on PC. I'd like to commend WindStrings for his positions. I agree with most of them and understand where he's coming from. And I don't put much stock in the comments made by the Toyota Rep. He may be right, but again, he may be wrong. To me it provided more information to help this group discuss and analyze the benefits of the BT plate, it's not the bottom line. From my experience with Corvettes, it's always hard to judge the benifits of any mod. The BT plate is no different. Anytime you buy a mod from a manufacturer they make many claims. How many of us take a car to a dyno or track to validate the mod? Not many, most of us analyze mods by the seat of our pants, that and by listenting to the opinions of others with the same mode. I think this forum is on the right track, and I look forward to reading more about the plate in this and other threads.

 

Here's an idea...

It seems to me that one could instrument the stock plate with strain gages to directly measure how much the plate is elongating/compressing/bending while driving under normal and extreme conditions. Then one could repeat the same test for the BT plate. I don't think anyone doubts that the BT plate is stiffer, the question that this test will answer is whether or not the left and right side mounting points are being forced together or apart while driving under different conditions. If that relative displacement is significant we should be able to measure it and compare between plates.

Here are a couple of reference links on strain gages for those of you who are not familiar with them.

http://www.omega.com/literature/transactio...me3/strain.html
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/3092
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strain_gauge

-momanz

 

I just wanted to post an update to our shipping status. We have shipped ALL backorders for our BT Tech plate and those that have placed an order for them either directly with us or through the Prius Chat store will be receving your new plate within the next several days!!

If when you ordered your BT plate you entered a vaild email address, you should have received a UPS Quantum View Notify with your tracking number. If you did not, please PM me so that I can confirm that we have your order in our system.

for those that are wishing to order a plate we now have a good amount in stock and can ship right away!!

Thanks everyone for your business and helping to support this Prius Chat Site with your purchase!!

 

.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Apr 13 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]422520[/snapback]</div>

SYCLONE FOR PRESIDENT!!!



What do you say, Sy? Are you ready to announce your candidacy?
- Just think of it... A prius in every garage! - with LED side mirrors, and a BT plate - standard equipment!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(momanz @ Apr 14 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]423224[/snapback]</div>

momanz -

I agree. See my post #353 (http://priuschat.com/index.phps=&showtopic=29231&view=findpost&p=421810) a few pages back in this thread in which I proposed mounting a force sensor between the 2 members the plate connects, in close proximity to the plate. I was thinking of using a commercially available force sensor (http://store.pasco.com/pascostore/showdetl.cfm?&DID=9&Product_ID=1408&Detail=1). I taught high school Physics for a couple of years, and used these in student labs. The beauty is that the software is already available, and can easily run off a laptop computer. All that would need to be done is to machine a fixture that could allow mounting the force gauge between the members underneath the car. I'm not sure about the +/- 50N range of the sensor for this experiment. But I'm sure we'd learn quite a bit before that became an issue. If the range does become an issue, I'm sure we could modify the experiment to adapt.

Thoughts?