Thinking of going veggie, need some advice??

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]421597[/snapback]</div>

From which he was not being optimally nourished. He was trying to correct that problem and apparently has successfully done so.

 

Like AOH stated. Corn is not the natural diet for cattle and they can only subside on it for a short period of time even with the use of antibiotics. The average lifespan of a beef cow is rather short so it's not like these guys are fed a high corn diet for years then sent off to slaughter. The stuff they feed cows is actually quite nasty. Fillers and fatteners mostly.

The real problems are the nutrition quality of the meat suffers just like it does in farm-raised grain-fed fish.

Like I stated before, if you want to learn more simply read "The Omnivore's Dilemma". It talks all about this stuff and tries to remain unbiased.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 11 2007, 01:43 PM) [snapback]421549[/snapback]</div>

No, genius.

Read Sunnyvale's post. He argued reciprocal respect for dietary habits. I ask him to consider the illogical conclusions of his stance.

btw, I have never read PETA stuff, and don't intend to. You find it convenient to pigeon hole everybody who does agree with you into a label you can then denigrate and ignore. It is a piss poor substitute for thinking clearly, but whatever works for ya, bud.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 02:28 PM) [snapback]421661[/snapback]</div>

That is an opinion or worldview difference. I don't believe we were "put on this earth" nor that we have a higher purpose unless it is a stewards or teachers for other species who may be on the brink of attaining a higher intelligence. I could make up a story about that and say we are here to guard the earth and allow other species the room to evolve and then to help guide them so they do not make the same mistakes we did. Kind of like how a parent goes through their early life and learns from their mistakes and teachers their children later on. I could put it all down in a book and call it holy. It worked for the Mormons and their story was equally fancifull. LOL

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 03:35 PM) [snapback]421686[/snapback]</div>

and we all know that it's a complete fallacy saying that a vegetarian diet doesn't provide "optimal nourishment"
(rather, I should say, that the well-informed know that it's completely inaccurate to describe vegetarianism/veganism in these terms)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]421768[/snapback]</div>

"We all" do? :lol: You have a lot of nerve speaking for "all" when you don't have scientific facts on your side.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]421771[/snapback]</div>

already corrected, see above

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]421768[/snapback]</div>

Nice last minute edit job. Well-informed? :lol: :lol: :lol: You are not only ill-informed, but you are closed minded. Congratulations on your ignorance. You wear it well. You're exactly the kind of ill-informed vegetarian that gives vegetarians a bad name.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]421774[/snapback]</div>

Ill-informed? And close-minded? The only one exhibiting ignorance here is you. Close-minded because I think outside of "conventional wisdom" and believe in living an alternate lifestyle that doesn't conform to your societal rules? Give me a break.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 08:07 PM) [snapback]421783[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: Yes, vegetarianism is certainly an "alternative." An alternative that I've repeatedly made crystal clear that one can do in a healthful way, but only if they know what they're doing. How, exactly, does that make me "the only one exhibiting ignorance here"? Please be specific.

To what 'societal rules' of mine that I have somehow imposed here does your choice of vegetarianism not conform? Again, specifics, please.

I've not said vegetarianism is either "right" or "wrong" as I believe it is a personal choice. Can you honestly say the same regarding meat-eating?

I've only demonstrated scientifically that vegetarianism is neither nutritionally optimal nor is it the natural human diet, which is omnivorous. Do you deny that humans are naturally omnivores?

Aren't you the one who found this thread to be 'extremely offensive,' 'off-topic' and 'useless' and called to have it 'locked or taken out completely'? Aren't you now being 'insensitive to the viewpoints of others' as you accused others of doing? Why does all this open discussion seem to threaten you so? Is the foundation of your choice to be a vegetarian really that flimsy?

You seem terribly paranoid, not to mention, seriously lacking in a sense of humor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 08:07 PM) [snapback]421783[/snapback]</div>

Yes, ill-informed and close-minded.

AnOldHouse has absolutely not exhibited ignorance as he has provided links to evidence and research. His messages are basd on facts.. not a "because it feels good" mentality.

You hit the nail on the head though.. "alternate lifestyle that doesn't conform to your societal rules" ... You sound like an angry teenager. Sounds to me like you're trying to not be "mainstream" or whatever those of you that "keep up w/ the Jones'" call it.

As for my friend who WAS a vegetarian... Why do you think he was trying to eat beef broth? He was trying to supplement his weak nice person vegetarian diet with some MEAT. His body was obviously craving something else. He couldn't even stomach beef broth.. I'm just really happy he started eating meat again. We love to go grub on big fat beef BBQ Ribs with a beer.. and it's FUN.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 08:39 PM) [snapback]421803[/snapback]</div>

You're awesome.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]421803[/snapback]</div>

What I find useless is the stereotypical banter about vegetarians, and the fact that anyone can pull some links off the internet to substantiate their claims.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]421829[/snapback]</div>

Um, yeah. Well, I honestly didn't figure you were capable of actually addressing any of my questions. Speaks volumes. 'nuf said.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]421661[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Apr 11 2007, 06:46 PM) [snapback]421694[/snapback]</div>

Ummm...that was a joke. "Cannabalism"..."serve our fellow man"- as in "serve" on a platter...aw, never mind!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]421830[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, I nearly choked on my mediterranean couscous salad and bbq tempeh. So, to answer your questions:

1. Yes, people do have the right to choose whether or not to eat meat. I don't denigrate people for their choice of eating meat or try to prove that their diet is inferior because of it's artery clogging properties.

2. No,I don't deny that humans are naturally omnivorous. Vegetarianism/Veganism is a choice, and I don't feel or act morally superior because of my choice.

3. The foundation of my vegetarianism isn't flimsy whatsoever, I just feel this thread should stick to facts, rather than stereotypes.

Gotta go, my vegan cupcakes are waiting!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 09:39 PM) [snapback]421833[/snapback]</div>

"To Serve People" the classic Twilight Zone episode!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 11 2007, 07:39 PM) [snapback]421833[/snapback]</div>

It went right over my head LOL. I never watched The Twilight Zone and I think I was having an momentary lapse of reason.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 09:42 PM) [snapback]421835[/snapback]</div>

"How to serve Man."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 09:40 PM) [snapback]421834[/snapback]</div>

Wow. Talk about stereotypical, uniformed nonsense. For the vast majority of people, dietary fat and cholesterol intake is of no consequence. They are both entirely natural components of the omnivorous human diet. Yes, there is a small percentage of people, about 1%, who do have a condition called hyperlipidemia/hypercholesterolemia where dietary fats and/or cholesterol do have a significant impact on serum lipid levels, but we're not talking about them here. Your liver makes lots of cholesterol, so whatever you don't eat, it's going to make anyway. Yes, you can artificially circumvent that by eating an unnaturally ultra-low level of saturated fats as sat fats are the raw material your liver uses to make cholesterol. But again, the question isn't how much dietary sat fat or cholesterol you consume, but why the liver may be being triggered to over-produce cholesterol. The answer is that chronically high insulin levels trigger the liver to make excessive cholesterol. Chronically high insulin levels come from over-indulgence of carbohydrates of a typical high-carbohydrate diet, especially (but not exclusively) ones with large amounts of refined flours and sugars. Vegetarians can easily fall in this trap as well as their diet which is based on grains and legumes carries a substantial carbohydrate load. PS: I eat at least 4 eggs a day, a diet of approximately 65% calories from fat and about 24% calories from saturated fats. My total cholesterol is consistently in the low 170's over the past 4 years testing at least every 6 months, and is significantly better than when I followed a low-fat, low-meat diet that saw me all the way up to 320 pounds. Now 83 pounds lighter...please tell me...how exactly is that 'artery clogging'?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 09:40 PM) [snapback]421834[/snapback]</div>

Great. Then if humans are naturally ominvorous, how can an naturally ominvorous diet not be the 'optimal' human diet?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mayathystle @ Apr 11 2007, 09:40 PM) [snapback]421834[/snapback]</div>

Again, where exactly have *I* promoted any stereotypes here?

You also failed to address my first two questions:

Yes, vegetarianism is certainly an "alternative." An alternative that I've repeatedly made crystal clear that one can do in a healthful way, but only if they know what they're doing. How, exactly, does that make me "the only one exhibiting ignorance here"? Please be specific.

To what 'societal rules' of mine that I have somehow imposed here does your choice of vegetarianism not conform? Again, specifics, please.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AnOldHouse @ Apr 11 2007, 08:19 PM) [snapback]421870[/snapback]</div>

wow, you have way too much time on your hands