The so-called "hybrid premium"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 10 2007, 06:10 AM) [snapback]420706[/snapback]</div>

The premium on the Prius is not unique - tax credit (now discontinued) not withstanding.

One could easily say the same thing about the Shelby Mustang - it's the demand.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Apr 10 2007, 08:54 AM) [snapback]420722[/snapback]</div>

I'm not talking about demand; I'm talking about forcing features into the car, features the buyer must pay for even if they don't want those features, just in order to get the one feature--the HSD.

Put HSD into the Corolla and eliminate a bunch of those features. Get it out into the hands of even more drivers for several thousand dollars less. Don't force people to pay for a bunch of package features just to get HSD.

 

It's still about demand - that thing known as the marketplace.

As efusco hinted, the research and development on the HSD cost a considerable amount of money. Many Prius buyers are willing to add options and what good businessman would refuse to do so? Most cars have options added. Yes, it would be nice to see a hybrid priced at around $15,000, but that does not happen overnight, esp. when it's a radically different engine. Think I've heard a new car from scratch takes four years from design to showrood - at least.

Toyota maximizing profits on the Prius is commonplace. Remember the original VW Beetle? The last one was finally built in 2003, but they stoped selling them in the US in the mid 1970's because VW could make more money on the Rabbit/Golf/GTI. The most obvious example is Detroit pushing SUVs and pickup trucks at the expense of cars - particularly subcompacts.

As far as the most affordable, fuel efficient subcompacts go, wasn't there a recent article saying there are over 80 choices sold worldwide - but America?

Over the past few years, the hybrid premium has been overblown. The price of hybrids will come down just like they did on PCs and cell phones when demand increases.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 10 2007, 06:41 AM) [snapback]420732[/snapback]</div>

I've also believed this to be the case. Toyota probably has higher margins on extras like Homelink but to have similar margins on HSD would make hybrids prohibitively expensive. So Toyota "throws in" the extras. I don't think a bare bones hybrid, if one was marketed today, would be much cheaper than the base models currently available.

 

I was really wanting to get a Prius back in 2004 (still do). I asked a dealership to let me know if any became available, they called one day and I excitedly went down to check it out. After the "market correction", tinting, vin etching, gold-plated floor mats, etc. it was going to be $33,000! It sure was pretty, though - maroon. I half-heartedly went through all the paperwork, they wanted some ungodly monthly payment. They wouldn't even take my old car as trade in. I decided to buy my first house instead...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Apr 10 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]421016[/snapback]</div>

That's the theme of a lot of threads on this forum:

<div align="center">"WHINE WHINE WHINE"</div>

I traded a 2003 Ford Explorer which I really liked for my Prius. The Explorer never got over 20MPG in the 40,000 miles that I drove it. I was paying $60.00 each week for gas. Now I pay about $30.00 every 3 weeks. I'm a happy camper. Just did my income tax - $3150.00 right off the bottom line - even happier.



The only downside for me is when I drive into Manhattan - the Prius doesn't intimidate the cab drivers like the Explorer did. But it's fun to sneak up on the pedestrians in stealth mode! :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 10 2007, 08:10 AM) [snapback]420706[/snapback]</div>

Very true, that one can't buy a hybrid for 15K. Yet you can really claim it is a hybrid premium if the extra price includes lots of other features. Camry is about 5K more base price than a Camry and has around 30 more HP. But you don't' see people complaining about the 5K horsepower premium.

I agree that cheap hybrids should be available on say Corollas or even a Yaris like vehicle. Yet no advanced features come standard on the cheap cars first (i.e. Bluetooth, Smart Start, etc). Safety features may be different, but I think they are still more like to show up first on higher-end vehicles.

All in all considering that the Prius can be had for the same price as a Camry, America's best selling car, then I don't think people can clamor too much about a premium being too expensive for the masses. There are econoboxes in lower price ranges that at least get decent mileage. The less well-off are always the last to get the technological advances, hybrids are no different.

 

Dude your pricing on the LX Civic is way off. Even the EX is only 18K and, nav equipped, just 20K. The LX is the mid level civic, so it's around 16 or 17, not 20.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 10 2007, 09:41 AM) [snapback]420732[/snapback]</div>

I guess that goes to the idea that the actual cost of those features is way less than what they traditionally charge for those features.

In other words, they automakers have spent years setting the expectation that climate control, SKS, leather, whatever are worth $X--yet the actual cost of producing those items (especially if you make them standard across the board) is some small fraction of $X.

That leaves plenty of room to pay for the HSD.

I just want the HSD technology to come down to where every car has it, much like how Honda has every safety feature in even the lowliest Civic with their "Safety for Everyone" program.

I guess ABS started out as a high end only feature, but now is available on everything...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 10 2007, 08:36 PM) [snapback]421175[/snapback]</div>

To tack on to what Evan said:

I think all of us on PC are hoping for the same thing as we want hybrids to be available in every range and market ASAP. I fell impatient at times as well, since it has been a decade since the Prius was released in Japan. Yet each month seems to bring more and more news (ie the barrier of becoming 2% of cars, all of the planned releases in the next few years, Toyota's pledge to cut down the cost by half, etc, etc.). The opposition to hybrids by both manufacturers and others could be an opposing force perhaps, but times are changing (as gas prices and shows such as an Inconvenient Truth come out) and I think it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

Amory Lovins and the Rocky Mountain Institute, http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid414.php, are promoting carbon fiber composites - stronger and lighter than metal. This is being adapted by the US Army and will trickle over to domestic auto production. When combined with PHEVs, better batteries and HSD, the so-called hybrid "premium" will more fully recognize capital costs up front, rather than in the current form of ICE auto maintenance and repair over time.