My friend got me thinking about this, if a thief doesn't have the keyfob, is there any way at all to steal a Prius? I mean obviously, it could be towed or flatbedded away, but other than that, there would be no way to start it, correct?
Well, you've ruled out the flatbed so that leaves: no. Since the ignition of the Prius is electronically and software controlled, the absence of the fob means that the car will not start. It's pretty much that simple. When I was working at the Milwaukee Auto Show, I was telling a woman about the Smart Entry/Smart Start and how the fob is the key. She said, but if someone has your fob they could steal your car. I tried to be polite when I replied, "yes ma'am, but if someone had your key they could steal your car."
Interesting. My parents are being very protective of ours because it's new, but I didn't think about the software preventing theft.
We actualy debated this a year or two ago regarding the "rolling code" algorithm used in the Prius. Since there really isn't much information about it, one has to go by official reports, which rank the Prius among the most resistant to conventional "hotwiring." Of course, then you have brand new GM branded vehicles, such as the 2007 Escalade, that a gang of 13 year old punks hotwired and stole off dealer lots here in Winnipeg a couple of weeks ago. The Provincial auto insurance "AutoPac" does not recognize the GM "passkey" as being secure, and this is reflected in the ease of stealing a brand new GM brand vehicle. Perhaps our favorite GM troll malorn can correct me on this A group of bright lads at Johns Hopkins demonstrated how easy it was to hack other transponder equipped cars. No word on if they've tried a Prius yet http://www.rfidanalysis.org/ I fully expect it's just a matter of time before a Prius can be stolen just as easily as a new GM car/truck. Computing power is becoming cheaper, increasing in capacity, and the math is well known.
But that would imply the criminal was at least somewhat intelligent. I think the people in the neighborhood around my school would probably move on to a more profitable and simple car.
Interestingly, the topic of security was my very first post: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2093&hl=
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Mar 16 2007, 12:37 AM) [snapback]406579[/snapback]</div> Interesting read, thanks!
there was a test a while back... the most they could do is mess with the bluetooth.. and all they could manage to accomplish was freezing the screen.
I read a report a while back where thieves targeted a particularly high-end BMW, monitoring RFID traffic with a laptop when the owner opened and started the car at a Starbucks. They waited a couple of days and when the BMW and owner returned, the owner went into the Starbucks and the theives drove off with the BMW. I doubt a $30K Prius would be worth that kind of criminal's time. I don't remember all the details, but the BMW was over $200K.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Mar 16 2007, 12:47 AM) [snapback]406629[/snapback]</div> Usually one monitoring session isn't enough, although it can be with a poor code implementation. For example, to break the common WEP code system for WFII computer networks requires a listener to record one complete cycle through all of the possible codes, which on a busy network might take two or three days of traffic. Some faster methods are possible with specific hardware containing poor implementations of the WEP system. The rolling code used in the SKS is different than a WFII system, but the concept is what I am driving at. A thief could also replace all of the ECU electronics with his own, and thereby drive away with your Prius. This isn't practical either. It all comes down to being easier to put it on a flat bed. Tom
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Mar 16 2007, 10:24 AM) [snapback]406722[/snapback]</div> Indeed, that's what I was getting at originally. Aside from physically moving the car, there doesn't seem to be a really easy way for the average thief to steal the car. I love my Prius.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Mar 15 2007, 09:05 PM) [snapback]406482[/snapback]</div> LOL! :lol:
I would think that the 'brute force hack' would be to swap your Prius' body ECU into the subject vehicle, for long enough to drive it to your tear-down facility. Driving it with your RFID. As I understand it, the body ECU is installed in a rather inconvenient location for a parking lot takeaway.
When I was telling one techie friend about my new car, he said "All someone would have to do to steal the car would be mimic the signal the fob sends out" and I was skeptical. It does sound like an awful lot of trouble to go through. I wonder if anyone has ever stolen a Prius this way...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vagabond @ Mar 17 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]407660[/snapback]</div> Quite right. The question is method and motivation. The easiest method with a Prius is towing. Someone with a tilt flat bed could drag your car up on the truck and drive away in under 5 minutes. The RFID intercept method is possible, but would require much more planning and high-tech equipment and knowledge. Now, with Prius getting more plentiful, there might be a growing black market for parts, which could be a motivation, but I don't think so since most HSD work has to be performed by a dealer, though body panels might be attractive to sleazy body shops. Because the Prius is getting more plentiful, and costs under $30K to begin with, there isn't much motivation because it's exotic.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(razzledazzlebee @ Mar 17 2007, 06:21 PM) [snapback]407654[/snapback]</div> Depends whether the Prius' fob has code scanning protection (i.e. some thief going around sending multiple signals hoping one of those signals is the correct one). <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(YodaddyAlex @ Mar 18 2007, 10:49 AM) [snapback]407903[/snapback]</div> Maybe it's the Z8 that has risen in value haha. or an M1?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bill Merchant @ Mar 17 2007, 10:41 PM) [snapback]407683[/snapback]</div> I agree that no car is unstealable, but the Prius would be among the toughest for it's class. Of course, the point is not so much whether it is completely unstealable, but rather the electronics would be a strong deterrent for amateur & convenience thiefs, who would (theoretically) prefer to move onto a car with a conventional ignition that can more easily be hotwired. Now, so long as the rookie Prius driver does not walk away and forget the car running....
