The Miracles of God!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hjon71 @ Mar 10 2007, 11:10 PM) [snapback]403674[/snapback]</div>

Moses??? Then you'd all be Jews. And Babel before Moses??? Hey, man, I'm an atheist and even I know Moses came way after Babel. And it was Noah that the fairy tale says was saved from the flood. Moses is the guy who went up on the mountain and got the tablets.

What kind of a Bible-thumper diesn't even know the difference between Moses and Noah? Next you'll be telling us that Joshua was swallowed by a fish!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 11 2007, 11:17 AM) [snapback]403748[/snapback]</div>

Or that he sacrificed his daughter!
Yeesh! The pot calling the kettle black!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]402934[/snapback]</div>

I don't feel like I was lied to, since the person who said it was "part of God's plan" believed what they said. The people who say those types of things believe those types of things, probably as much as you believe what you're saying. If you claim that they lied to me because you don't agree with what they said, then you have to accept the fact that I can believe you're lying to me by what you're saying; which is not what I'm saying, btw, but I could believe that if I CHOSE to. You obviously believe in what you have decided to believe in - and that's my point: they're BELIEFS which requires FAITH to support them, since they are insupportable from a scientific viewpoint (i.e., not supportable by proof or material evidence). They are not facts. It's not a belief that 2 + 2 = 4, it's a fact.

I feel everyone has the right to believe what they want (speaking religiously/spiritually here). I don't believe anyone has the right to kill others because they don't believe what they believe in. I also don't understand the need to "convert" another to one's beliefs, nor the need to argue that another is wrong.

My whole point in sharing my story was to illustrate how my beliefs were formed. They are my beliefs, I don't feel the need to defend them, nor convince anyone else that what they believe is wrong. I think the absolute certainty that people display in something that cannot be proven nor disproven is astounding, and illustrates a very closed mind.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 11 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]403748[/snapback]</div>

WOW! Kudos!! So you do know the story. Sorry for the slip. Of course I meant Noah. Anyhow thats what happens when I drink late at night.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Mar 12 2007, 09:25 PM) [snapback]404495[/snapback]</div>

Yes, but one's belief *should* be supportable from the Bible. God does not ask us to worship him "in spirit and TRUTH", and at the same time make it impossible for us to discern what is truth. It just takes some diligent study and a willingness to abandon many preconceived ideas if there is not a proper foundation found for them in the scriptures. Unfortunately, that is the real "leap of faith" that many are not willing to take, hanging onto things they hold dear, or fearing that they will look bad/wishy-washy if they change their mind on a doctrine.
As I've stated before, faith is NOT credulity, belief in something with not one shread of evidence. It is belief in something unseen by the evidence that we *can* see.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hjon71 @ Mar 13 2007, 12:35 AM) [snapback]404721[/snapback]</div>

Just because I don't believe in it doesn't mean I haven't read it. A pretty good chunk of it, anyway. The Bible is an excellent book. The only problem is when people think it's a true story.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 14 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]405521[/snapback]</div>

I see no point in continuing. You have decided to not believe, I have decided to believe. So I will finish with this.
The bible is just as valid and true as any other history book in publication. The people and places and stories are real. And, I see no problem at all when people accept it as such. I have no problem with you not accepting it as such.
What I have a problem with is, Why would an Atheist post pictures of birth defects and say God did it when they don't believe in God? Do they think they are "saving" those who do believe from mass delusions? If most people believe in a god of some kind then aren't those who don't more likely to be deluded? We like to think we have all the answers, when in fact we are still very ignorant on many subjects.
I could go on and on but I really don't see the point. I will not change your mind. I hope you do someday.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 13 2007, 12:52 PM) [snapback]404874[/snapback]</div>

See, you definitely lost me here. The way I see it, you are connecting things that have no connection. This argument can therefore be used to explain anything, without the need to prove anything, and I can't resolve that. I'm fine that you can, btw.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hjon71 @ Mar 16 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]407105[/snapback]</div>

History book??? Just because a few of the places are real? All the places and some of the people in Tolstoy's War and Peace are real, but the book is fiction for all that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hjon71 @ Mar 16 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]407105[/snapback]</div>

When there are a thousand religions in the world, every one with its own god or gods, and every one is dead certain that it's got the only truth and everybody else's god is a fiction, then it's absolutely ridiculous for anyone to say, "Everybody believe in some kind of a god so my god must be the real one."

It makes a lot more sense to say: Since they all say everyone else's god is fake, then there's just two possibilities: Only one of them is right, and all the rest are bunk, or else all of them are bunk. And a god who would reveal himself to one tiny bunch of people while leaving everyone else in darkness is one sick sob. The only rational conclusion is that there is no god and all religions are bunk.