<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 11 2007, 10:12 AM) [snapback]403794[/snapback]</div> http://priuschat.com/index.php?s=&show...st&p=403781
The politicians used a 30 year old study to justify this current idiocy. More recent studies show there is NO ENERGY SAVINGS. We still have to get up in the morning and go to school/work. So we turn on the lights and crank the heat up. I personally object to children having to walk to school in the dark. I'm all for abolishing Daylight Savings Time. Pick a time and stick with it. When the earth wobbles, deal with it. But this changing the clocks back and forth in the spring and fall is STUPID! The Greeks and Romans had water clocks. Not really sure why the Greeks invented them. But the alarm clock was invented by monks. They needed to know when to pray.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Mar 11 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]403805[/snapback]</div> In September 1999, the West Bank was on Daylight Saving Time while Israel had just switched back to standard time. West Bank terrorists prepared time bombs and smuggled them to their Israeli counterparts, who misunderstood the time on the bombs. As the bombs were being planted, they exploded—one hour too early—killing three terrorists instead of the intended victims—two busloads of people.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nicos @ Mar 10 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]403497[/snapback]</div> All that means is that the clock on your computer won't be effected. However, other clocks may, which will effect a vast majority of the business world. If you get an invite to a meeting in outlook, you have to question whether the sender patched his system - otherwise the time would be an hour off. If you have an alarm clock or VCR or some other item that has a clock capable of automatically adjusting for DST, you're screwed - time to go buy a replacement. Have you checked the websites you frequent? Are their clocks all correct? For the professional sites, it's often much more involved than just applying a patch from a company. In fact, the JTZU has the potential to break your time zone classes and cause you to display everything in GMT instead of your preferred timezone. I know many companies that evaluated the cost of the testing to fix this problem, and decided that GMT for three weeks wasn't so bad - and then they can just back out the patch and have all summer to fix the problem. After all, the JTZU didn't come out until recently. Companies haven't been able to adequately test their systems due to the amazingly short timespan everyone has had with this change. One last little note - My banking website wasn't accessible all day yesterday. Sure, i could log in, but everything was "temporarily unavailable" as they worked on ensuring they properly patched the system. How much of a head ache is that when you balance your books every Sunday to not be able to do it?
It's stupid. It does not add any more daylight to the day. Pick a time and stick with it. We humans are morons. If you want more daylight wake up earlier. Why make me wake up ealier.
I personally like DST because there's more daylight in the winter months at the end of the day. I wish they would leave it this way all year round. I never understood why we have to mess with the time anyway.
The history of DST is rather interesting... It was originally proposed by Ben Franklin, who didn't actually suggest changing the clocks. All he suggested was that waking up and going to be earlier would cut down on the use of candles in the evenings - thus the saying "Early to bed and early to rise / Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." Later, it became popularized, but not implemented, by a guy who basically hated having his golf game end early at dusk. By changing the clocks, his golf game could have started at the same time, but gone on longer. It was finally first put into effect by Germany during WWI, followed closely by the British, and then the US. However, it was unpopular amongst US farmers, and was later repealed. It was reestablished during WWII, and has been with us ever since. The basic idea behind DST is that, by shifting the clocks, you reduce energy consumption in the evenings (it's still light out, so you don't turn your lights on) at the expense of increasing consumption in the mornings (it's dark when you wake up, so you turn on the lights). A study in 1975 showed that DST saves about 1% in energy consumption. That old study, however, may not apply to us today. with the widespread use of A/C, people leaving their computers on 24/7, energy efficient lights, etc lights are becoming much less of a burden than they were in the past. It's unclear currently if DST actually saves any power or not.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Mar 10 2007, 06:40 PM) [snapback]403471[/snapback]</div> On June 15th in Philadelphia, the Sun rises at 5:31 AM and sets at 8:31 PM. That's with Daylight Savings Time. Without Daylight Savings Time, the Sun would rise at 4:31 AM and set at 7:31 PM. Don't you think that shifting an hour of sunlight from 4:30 in the morning to 7:30 at night is a good thing? I certainly think that having an extra hour of sunlight at 7:30 in the evening is much more useful than having an extra hour of sunlight at 4:30 in the morning. Now, on December 31 in Philidelphia, the sun rises at 7:32 AM and sets at 4:45 PM. If Daylight savings time were kept in effect, then the sunrise would be at 8:32 AM and the sunset at 5:45 PM. While having the extra hour in the evening would be nice, losing the hour in the morning would much less desirable, particularly since that would be after elementary school kids get on the bus.
I can't understand why we're not applying the obvious solution to all this: straighten the earth up so it doesn't tilt. This lopsided spin of ours has caused nothing but trouble for millenia: seasons that keeping changing, too much or not enough sun most of the time, and difficulty with clocks. All it would take is a simple redistribution of mass on the surface to accomplish, and there's one particular concentration of surface mass that could be put to this use: all the saved issues of National Geographic. Let's get with it! Mark Baird Alameda CA
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nicos @ Mar 10 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]403497[/snapback]</div> Well, perhaps I'm not half-brained (hopefully not). But not all the fixes are seamless. For instance, I have a smartphone that runs on Windows. I downloaded a fix so that it's clock would correctly move ahead. However, it syncs with MS Outlook on my PC, and I found at least some events (so far, seems to be limited to recurring events that span the time change) were incorrectly shifted an hour ahead. Not life threatening, but annoying.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Mar 12 2007, 11:51 AM) [snapback]404287[/snapback]</div> Elementary school on December 31? Man, the kids in PA have it rough
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(San_Carlos_Jeff @ Mar 12 2007, 05:27 PM) [snapback]404323[/snapback]</div> Well, OK, shift the times by about 10 minutes by for mid-December or mid-January. The point is, that for much of the summer, the sun is already up well before 6:00 AM and sets some time after 8:00 PM. That's with Daylight Savings Time. Without it, the sun would be up well before 5:00 AM and would set some time after 7:00 PM. I would say that it is a safe bet that most people are sleeping between 4:30 AM and 5:30 AM and that most people are awake between 7:30 PM and 8:30 PM. Therefore, what good would it be to have sunrise at 4:30 AM instead of 5:30 AM when no one is awake to notice? Much better to have sunset at 8:30 PM instead of 7:30 PM so that most people can make use of the extra sunlight.
I totally against DST -- in fact, i don't like to have time zone either. Why we need time zones? If we all use GMT, I don't need to change my watch when I travel, and when we got used to it, it will become very natural to see sunrise at 10am (on east coast) or 1pm (on west coast). China changed from 4 time zones to 1 back in the 50's and study did showed that it makes people more productive than daylight saving time.
The world runs on UTC (Coördinated Universal Time), not Zulu or GMT. Time is broadcast in one-second intervals from WWV (Fort Collins CO) on short-wave, based on the atomic clock in Anapolis MD. A voice announces the time once per minute. Time zones are necessary because we live on a sphere that takes 24 hours to rotate (360° ÷ 24 = 15). Each time zone is approximately 15 degrees apart. Russia has 11 time zones because of the longitudinal extent from Europe to the Pacific Ocean. Observance of Daylight Saving Time (no "s" in Saving) is limited to temperate zones. DST is largely ignored at high latitudes. There is little use for DST in the equatorial region, as every day, year round, has 12 hours of sunlight and 12 hours of darkness. For a map where DST is observed and not observed see: http://www.worldtimezone.com/daylight.html - largely in the northern hemisphere where there is the most land and the most people. The current focus to use DST started with President Reagen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 10 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]403398[/snapback]</div> It’s been keeping us busy for the past 3 months. A lot of industrial embedded sensors/controllers require far more than a simple “patch†to recognize the difference in DST. For one thing, a critical process or an explosive/dangerous process with Safety Instrumented Systems require excruciating documentation and testing before such a “patch†is approved for use. We’re talking of CMM (Capability Maturity Model) Level 3 and higher. That’s light years beyond what Microsoft delivers in their weekly “patches†Another thing is the enormous cost the industry must absorb to complete the required CE/TUV/CMM/FDA etc testing just to implement the “simple†patch. That cost – like the Y2K work I was involved in – is eventually passed on to the consumer or end client Here is one example of a potentially dangerous issue regarding DST and an industrial sensor. I can’t mention the brand of industrial sensor, but it could apply to a temperature transmitter, pressure transmitter, conductivity transmitter, pH transmitter, a valve positioner, etc. The potential issue arises if the device in question is configured as a Backup LAS (Link Active Scheduler) on an industrial digital control network, say Foundation FieldBus. The Backup LAS is used in case there is a network glitch or failure between the control room and the process, say a maintenance worker accidentally severs the ether cable. The Backup LAS will immediately assume full control of the loop in question be it batch or continuous process. The Backup LAS can reside in any sensor in that loop, a TT used in a PID loop is most common. Say the ether cable is accidentally severed, the Backup LAS immediately takes over, and all is well. Once the break is repaired, you enter the diagnostic page and “force†the loop to revert back to the central control. So it broadcasts a synch command to that loop in question, in preparation to put the Backup LAS off Master and into Backup. But when the Backup LAS took over the loop, it reverted to its built-in clock, which lacks the updated DST information. That synch command attempts to time-synch the loop, gets stuck in a fatal circular loop timeout, and the entire loop goes down. That’s usually nothing more than an inconvenience, requiring a power-cycle of the loop. Unless you’re running something like an ethylene cracker, and are dealing with dangerous explosive gases and pressures. Then you could have a catastrophe. So what’s the safest thing to do in that scenario? Keep the entire control system on the old DST rules, giving the industry about 6 months to work on it. What a plan, hmmmm??? Eventually you’ll do what I do to deal with these sort of workplace issues: heavy drinking.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Mar 12 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]404249[/snapback]</div> I did not know all the reasons why we have daylight savings time. I was told many years ago that it was so school children waiting at bus stops early in the morning wouldn't be in the dark. I personally walk one to 2 miles daily and my wife gets home around 5:30. I guess it just depends on one's perspective. I enjoyed your post.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Mar 12 2007, 10:51 AM) [snapback]404287[/snapback]</div> I think that PA should DEFINITELY change clocks. Sounds like it sucks there without the time change. But for me? The hassle/expense of it all is WAY not worth it. I had to drag my daughter out of bed this morning in the pitch dark to get to school. Tomorrow I look forward (not) to my 24 mile bicycle commute in the dark... again. It just barely got light enough for me to be comfortable a couple of weeks ago, and now this. Is the time change better for our situation? Nope. Should the benefit you see in PA be a detriment for me in central CA? Or, hey. Here's another idea. Maybe PA could just change work/school hours twice a year. That would solve it more elegantly than changing everybody's clock across the country (except for those states that wisely choose not to). How are Arizona and Hawaii managing, anyway? Seems they're plenty happy with how things are. I'm half tongue-in-cheek here. But very honestly I do NOT think any of this is worth changing the clocks 2x per year. I can't imagine how much this cost our economy in lost productivity.
The thing is, I don't mind the "Fall, Fall back" thing - I like sleeping an extra hour. I HATE the "Spring spring forward" part, though. So I propose to keep the Fall part of gaining an hour, but forget about the spring part of losing an hour.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 12 2007, 08:18 PM) [snapback]404597[/snapback]</div> Excellent idea! Ironically, when we leave DST in the fall, THAT is when we're actually gaining the hour that everybody raves about in the spring!
