Is Hell Forever?

Well, whatever... in the meantime, in between time, ain't we got fun

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 9 2007, 09:20 AM) [snapback]402772[/snapback]</div>

Its not unusual at all.. any decent preacher prepares his sermon based on what God is speaking for him to prepare for that particular day.....



That happens when "God" is in control of the sermon and service...



When you know what that the preacher is gonna preach weeks and months in advance by looking in some little book.. thats means man is teaching you and not God through the man.. big difference.



Hearing from God is a very normal occurence to those who know him.. its proclaimed all throughout the scriptures.



You must be ignoring my posts.. in post # 218, I already clearly showed you:

(John 10:27 NKJV) "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.


Are they all crazy too?...


Seriously... if you can't hear God speaking to you.... you are not his...or at best you are not in correct standing and sin you are harboring is blocking communication.....

he said his sheep can hear his voice and they know him.

If God can hear my voice and hes not standing in front of me in the flesh, why shouldn't I be able to hear his?


Go ahead and make yourself feel better and try to convince yourself that everyone that can hear from God is crazy, but it only means they are a christian and in fellowship with God.. totally expected and normal for a child of God.


Its also totally normal for a believer that signs and wonders follow them.. are they crazy too?


Maybe your missing it all and can't stand to bear the thought that you could be wrong about the whole thing?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Mar 9 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]402809[/snapback]</div>

Aren't you cute!..... Just like your avatar!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:29 PM) [snapback]402901[/snapback]</div>

See, this right here sums up the whole problem a lot of religious discussions. The sheer arrogance displayed by people on all sides that their side is the absolute correct one and that the others are nuts.

Keep in mind, I'm not talking about everyone who believes whatever they believe.

On one side there are atheists, who say unless there's proof, they can't believe in a god. The problem with that view is that, if there is a god, it might be impossible for men to prove it.

On the other side there are people who believe that their god is the one true god. As proof they offer up words that were written by men as "proof". They can't conceive that they're god might not be the one, or that one might not exist.

To be honest, I've found more non-believers willing to admit they could be wrong than believers. What does a non-believer lose by saying there could be a god? Nothing. It just opens them up to more possibilities.

On the other hand, what does a true believer lose by saying there might not be a god? Only the possibility that the faith that keeps them going when times are tough might mean nothing.

It's simply a matter of presentation. Telling someone s/he's blind because s/he doesn't see what you see is counterproductive and isn't going to win any converts to either side.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 9 2007, 02:59 PM) [snapback]402920[/snapback]</div>

I have never denied the possibility that there COULD be a God. There could be any number of things that I have no way of knowing about. However, there has never been any compelling evidence to me of the existence of God. And if there is a God, I doubt that he (she, it) is anything at all like the God who has been described in the numerous Bible verses that have been quoted here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Mar 9 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]402926[/snapback]</div>

Yes, and I would very much hope that their God is a lot more forgiving and compassionate than that which they convey and display.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 9 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]402920[/snapback]</div>

Might be impossible. On the other hand, Richard Dawkins, in his excellent book, The God Delusion, which I am only half-way through at present, argues that the assertion that there is a god is a testable hypothesis, and even if it cannot be absolutely disproved, it can be shown to be exceedingly unlikely. Which he shows very convincingly. He also shows that the Bible is a dreadful authority on morality, and that in fact, even present-day Christians do not actually get their morality from it, except by carefully picking and choosing which bits to use and which bits to discard.

This book will make fundamentalists very very angry because it is so sound in its reasoning. Anybody with an open mind will find it extremely insightful. And anybody who has an aversion to religion will love it.

 

Excellent points, Proco.

One of my 1st post at PC was a thread such as this one would leave a lot of people frustrated. Too many overrate their ability to change minds on deeply held convictions, esp. if it's insultive in nature.

Brief tangent: you know how upset members get when the Prius is dissed. It's not a personal insult, but it's something dear to many of us, just like a spouse, family member, pet.....a belief. It's ridiculing one's belief just a verbal bullet flying a couple of inches away from that person? Think for a moment: Is ridculing someone into a "Come to Jesus" (or Darwin, or {fill in the blank} ) likely to bring another to your point of view? If anyone seriously believes such discourse is going to be effective, I'd refrain from discussing with them - it's hard to reason unless there is some respect given. I hope it's evident the attacks at times have gotten over the top from all factions.

I'll have more to say on my beliefs - many of you have a pretty good idea already. For me, when it gets more than an occasional mention and turns into a daily assult on the beliefs of others, it becomes counter-productive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 8 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]402486[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, but I don't consider your posts "light hearted" or "sincere". They are highly sarcastic, demeaning, and even blasphemous at times. For someone who constantly passes themselves off as a pacifist, your remarks are always highly inflamatory, so you lose all credibility with me. Posting on PC is like being surrounded by a bunch of bullies who are poking sticks at a wounded small animal. It must make all of you fell REALLY good about yourselves and your beliefs.

My religion HAS NOT, and WILL NOT ever hate or kill anyone. Jesus Christ never hated or killed anyone, so why are we included in your diatribe?

We are also 100% politically neutral. You will never see me running for office so that I can slip my "secret agenda" into the political system. As Jesus said "My Kingdom is no part of this world". Such neutrality is not without its price, as it will get you hated, or even killed, no matter what country you live in.

I never tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. I simply tell you the truths that I have learned about God by my lifelong study of him. He is a God of love, above all, but most people choose to believe the LIES that Satan has spread about him instead. Why do you think his very name means "slanderer"? Who do think REALLY would torture people forever in Hell *if* he had the chance. Satan. Who do you think really needs your worship in order to have any power? Satan. Who is really responsible for the suffering and death we see today? Satan. But he has done such a good job brainwashing people like you into believing that if there is a god it must be HIS fault. I'm just doing what I can to right the wrong being done to God's name by the slander. That's WHY we're called Jehovah's Witnesses.

As I've expressed on here many times, we do NOT believe in a "young earth", and I've spoke my feelings about people being dogmatic about things that the Bible really doesn't get into. Its quite obvious that this universe is billions of years old, but the Bible was only intended to cover the history of man on earth, not the origins of the universe.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Mar 9 2007, 12:59 PM) [snapback]402920[/snapback]</div>

I agree Proco that its hard to argue that my daddy is better than your daddy, but how can you say a "true believer" saying there "may" not be a God.. have you ever met a "true believer?... if they are "true" there is no " maybe " or question.. it is settled and fact.. otherwise its not belief?

What why I say someone cannot argue what they think they believe against what I "know".

"knowing" is believing.

Its like someone trying to convince me my Dad is not real and he doesn't love me.. sorry, you came to late.. I already know it to be fact that he Does... its the same with God.

Reading books and going to church alone does not bring that type of belief.

Hearing God speak to you is what brings faith... not just reading words.

You guys think I'm being hard headed and unreasonable and to some degree I am, because you can't talk be out of what I know.

Once you feel his presence just "one" time, you will never question his existence again.

Although its true, he is everywhere at once, his manifest presence moves around and only those who know what it feels like and are sensitive can detect it. That comes from being in His presence repeated times and becoming comfortable with it and you get to know it.

Something as simple as harboring unforgiveness or lust can quench the ability to operate with sensitivity in the spirit of God as it kills fellowship.

I know none of this makes sense, but "anyone" who moves in the power of God to any degree, this makes "perfect" sense!... just go find a church where miracles and healings take place and when you sit in the worship service you see tears streaming down peoples faces because of God dealing in thier lives while you may see other people dancing with exuberant Joy.. or someone doing both!.....

Yea... it looks like a nuthouse to someone who doesn't know God, but its partying in God.. much better than any high or drink.

Funny how people don't mind going to parties and witnessing all kinds of crazy behavior with half thier clothes on, but going to church is supposed to be dead and quiet as a mortuary?



To me, frat parties and similiar look like a nut house of insane people doing things they would never allow or approve of if they were not drunk out of thier gourd.

Living for God is the best choice anyone could or will ever make above everything else they ever do in this life.

No... sorry, no one can talk me out of this and tell me none of its real.... they are totally wacked to try and they have no foundation.. it makes about as much sense and coming to me one night and trying to convince me the sun is not real even though I've seen and felt it all my life.

This whole arguement sounds like the devil in the garden.... "are you sure thats what God told you?"

Its too absurd to even be a decent test of faith.

 

Wow, the 1st post in a while in which you haven't told someone they're wrong and going to hell. Good job.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 01:32 PM) [snapback]403009[/snapback]</div>

IMO there is no one right way to live.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ Mar 9 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]403022[/snapback]</div>

the liberal mind also believes there is no wrong way to live!


Knowing right from wrong is indeed a blessing and Gift from God.


I am realizing it more and more.... especially as I participate in these forums......


I'm blown away that so many people have a hard time believing fat meat is greasy.


I think God made truth something that is hidden unless your looking for it... most don't want to know the truth because they love darkness so thier deeds are hidden. "they think"



Something about truth.... it draws near to those who invite her and does not enter the place she is not welcome... so that seeing, they still do not see and hearing, they still do not hear.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 04:32 PM) [snapback]403009[/snapback]</div>

If you're speaking from your God, it's a shame that its knowledge of basic grammar and punctuation isn't better. You're going about it all wrong if your god is such a dimbulb about such basic things.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 01:18 PM) [snapback]402999[/snapback]</div>

Blasphemy is merely a word that religion uses for any and all contrary opinions. The word itself is preposterous. What would you think of a person who said, "It's blasphemous to like vanilla more than chocolate"? Religion is so entirely devoid of all logic and common sense, that , in the absense of any rational argument in its favor, it must invent words like "blasphemous" to describe people who do not swallow its nonsense

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 01:18 PM) [snapback]402999[/snapback]</div>

It is for the above reasons that I do not include Jehovah's Witnesses in the category of evil religions. You realize, though, that you are a small minority among Christians, and that most Christian sects are very political and quite willing to march off to war to kill the enemy of the day.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(keydiver @ Mar 9 2007, 01:18 PM) [snapback]402999[/snapback]</div>

I apologize for my error. Your incorrect view that humans have only been around for 6,000 years misled me into thinking that you believed in a young Earth. I stand corrected. But the evidence is clear that modern humans evolved, in Africa, one or two hundred thousand years ago, and that the first hominids evolved a few million years ago, and that about 5 million years ago our ancestors separated from the ancestors of our nearest primate relative, the chimpanzee.

Depending on whether you use the word "human" in the technical sense of refering to all hominids, or in the narrower sense of modern homo sapiens, humans go back either a few million, or at least a hundred thousand years.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]403026[/snapback]</div>

It's all about interpretations my friend. Your idea of a wrong way to live may be the right way in another culture. To say that your culture is right is the utmost in arrogance and is exactly why a lot of people I know can't stand organized religion. If you are implying something else then Iapplogize for the misinterpretation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 02:19 PM) [snapback]403026[/snapback]</div>

I really think you're losing it, Windstrings. While liberals and conservatives disagree with each other on the details, both have ethical beliefs and believe that there are right and wrong ways to live.

Liberals (generally) believe that it is wrong to kill people, wrong to discriminate on the basis of race, nationality, creed, sexual orientation, or gender, wrong to imprison people without due process, wrong to force a woman to bear a child against her will, wrong for any man to force himself sexually on any woman, even if he is married to her, wrong to deny the vote to women or people of color... I could go on and on.

You are really off your nut if you honestly believe that liberals believe there is "no wrong way to live."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Mar 9 2007, 04:20 PM) [snapback]403027[/snapback]</div>

I knew someone would ask... glad you did.



I"m going to give some more nuggets that you would normally "never" hear in an open forum because they are not understood by the carnal mind and are held in reserve for the spritual.



Sorry if thats insulting.. its not mean't to be.... its just a fact...

the only reason I am bringing it up is to whet someones appetite to give them a tiny glimpse of what thier missing.



When God speaks, its not in english or german or spanish, its deeper.



He speaks with impartation of knowledge and impressions as if you've always known it.



Extremes of that is called the "gift of knowledge" where information comes from God that you never learned or obtained though earthly means.



Most of the time, he simply brings back word he has already stored away in your heart from his word "the bible".

Other times it can be fresh "Rhema" or fresh revelation from God concerning a matter or situation.


Someone can say something..and instantly out of know where it seems, the appropriate scripture becomes front in your mind.... no work, no strain.



Other times God speaks directly "In your spirit" and you have to formulate it the best you can into english to relate it to others......



How many times have you said.. "I can't quite put into words what I want to say or feel?"



Its the same... Some have eloquent command of the english language and others don't "like myself", but nevertheless, God still speaks and He speaks just as powerfully to those who can't relate it as well..... but "conveying" that word is often dependent upon the talents and abilities of the person who recieved it.



Often God "quickens" your mind and you find you are speaking more eloquent that you could have ever formulated on your own. Sometimes God can give you a word and as you speak it and your mind hears what you are saying, its like its new to you too!... it actually teaches and becomes revelation to your own mind as God speaks through your own mouth bypassing your understanding.



No, God doesn't give you each word and each syllable, but gives the message with a speech that words often cannot adequate imply, deeper than the mind as He speaks directly to the spirit of a man. Then as the mind becomes aware of what has been spoken deep within, the bearer has to formulate it into words the best you can and not change the meaning of what God said.

The hardest part of getting a word from God and relaying it, is to not add your own to it and pollute it....

Even Paul when he spoke "out of permission" rather than pure unction from God as commandment, those very words are some of the key elements of misunderstanding and debate to this day.



When we hear speech or words from the world.. it always comes from the outside "eyes, ears, feel, senses or whatever", but When God speaks, its usually from the inside out.... you can get a word from God and it may take a day or two before you even realize what was spoken.

However, God can speak on "any" level.. even audibly.. he is not limited to the spirit realm. One time he spoke through a donkey in the bible... hey, maybe he's doing it again!!... LOL!

( I thought I would say it before someone else did! )



I know I"m talking greek to you unbelievers, but I speak anyway just to show you all the fantastic cool stuff in God your missing.



Speaking in tongues is similiar... its highly controversial, but the tongue speaks while driven by the spirit and its beyond understanding for the mind to grab.

Have you ever looked at someone and instantly knew what they were thinking? no words were exchanged?



When you speak to God in tongues, you don't have clue "hardly ever" what you said, but afterwards your spirit is alive and strengthened from the conversation and you will find that prayers that you didn't even know came out deep from your heart and spirit that were conveyed to God as you now see those prayers answered.



Its the language of the Angels... far above mere earthly communication with our crude brains.



You may ask, why the need to even speak then?.. I don't know.. it has something to do with free will... from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. There is power in the spirit realm based on what you speak.... we will be judged on every word we ever uttered... the bible says God knows the thoughts and intents of the heart ,but it never says he Judges the thoughts and intents... its only the words and actions.



Thoughts come from many places and most people who are not akin to the spirit world think every thought that pops in thier head is thiers.. but its not.. you are bombarded with propaganda from the spirit world all the time.. if you take those thoughts as your own and act on them, only then are you accountable for them.

 

Ok, I'm not coming back into this thread again. LOL

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Mar 9 2007, 05:19 PM) [snapback]403026[/snapback]</div>

what the hell does political leaning have to do with this topic?

i claim to know nothing of a god's existence or lack thereof but i do the right thing regardless. "the right thing" to do is defined by society. there you go again saying that anyone who doesn't believe in your arbitrary concept is inherently bad...