Prius as a non hybrid

It's more about the power delivery system. If you run the current prius engine through a normal transmission, i'm sure you'll get around low 30mpg.

as is, the corolla has a bigger engine. it creates roughly 17 more hp.

the prius weighs in a couple hundred lbs heavier.

I have a feeling that if you made the mofications, and took out the battery, you would get around 35mpg.

It was said, in the past, that the prius gives a 30% gain over traditional engines.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ibcs @ Mar 7 2007, 10:13 PM) [snapback]402028[/snapback]</div>

I remember hearing that the same 1.5L engine is also used in the Yaris, but with a conventional transmission. (?)

Not sure if that is accurate or not....

 

Actually that powerplant is good for 50 MPG by itself... especially
the way that the torque / throttle control is done.
.
You can find my "non-hybrid experiment" in the archives here or
over at cleanmpg.com, or you can experiment for yourself and get
some numbers:
.
_ Coast in neutral with the engine running instead of allowing it
_ to shut down. Sometimes "B" helps maintain running too.
.
_ Stay in neutral and use the friction brakes to slow down instead.
.
_ Idle at lights. Idle at the drive-thru while waiting for food.
.
Combine this with good ecodriving techniques, and you'll probably
be surprised by how well you can do.
.
_H*

 

Well, if you took out all of the batteries and the electric motor, it would be lighter. You could then put in a slightly larger engine. It still wouldn't be peppy. But I'm thinking somewhere around 30 give or take a few.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 7 2007, 10:36 PM) [snapback]402038[/snapback]</div>

Just thinking about it, isn't the Prius out on the highway at cruising speed basically going to be operating on the ICE alone at some point, assuming a level highway? So, it seems like 50 highway and maybe 40 in the city.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ibcs @ Mar 7 2007, 09:13 PM) [snapback]402028[/snapback]</div>

In 2001, we were shopping for a car and the decision came down between the 2001 Prius and 2001 Echo. Both vehicles had similar body shapes and the same engine block and we only looked at the automatic Echo, which matches the eCVT Prius. The other significant differences between the Echo and Prius were:

2030 lbs vs. 2765 lbs
108 hp vs. 70 hp

The Prius with no color or options choice including the navigation unit, costs $22,000 and the Echo with electric door locks cost $14,000. For a second car, we bought the Echo and continue to use it today.

About 18 months ago, we bought a used 2003 Prius for $17,300, the same model as the 2001 Prius we had considered before. The mileage differences have been:

34 MPG vs 52 MPG

To compare the vehicle specifications:
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com...yota-echo-4.htm
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com...ota-prius-4.htm

The Echo is a 'pocket rocket' compared to the Prius and in any sort of wet weather, it is easy to spin the wheels. However, the Echo has more engine vibration and noise.

Bob Wilson

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(V8Cobrakid @ Mar 7 2007, 08:22 PM) [snapback]402032[/snapback]</div>

Prius
1.5L / 4cyl
48MPG city / 45MPG Hwy (NEW EPA Estimates)

Yaris
1.5L / 4cyl
29MPG city / 35 MPG Hwy

Corolla
1.8L / 4 cyl
26 MPG city / 35 MPG Hwy

My guess for a NON-Hybrid Prius would be:
with 1.8L / 4 cyl : Almost same as the corolla in the city, maybe a little more in hwy due to aerodynamics.
with 1.5L / 4 cyl : A couple of miles less per gallon than the yaris due to the extra weight both city and hwy.

But, where's the fun??

 

Hi All,

Take a look at the Camry V6 versus the Camry Hybrid specs. Both cars have similar accelleration performance, pasenger room and overall vehicle dimensions and aerodynamics. So, this is a valid comparison between a Hybrid and Traditional car.

The V6 has 31 mpg, and the Hybrid has 38 mpg.

This tells me that a 2.0 liter DOHC Prius would do 41.6 mpg (31*51/38) at 55 mph highway cruise. The 2.0 Liter DOHC engine is what Toyata tells us the Hybrid system provides the equivalent accelleration performance of.

Now let look at City EPA specs. The Camry V6 is 22 mpg, while the Hybrid is 40 mpg. Similarily, this tells us the 2.0 Liter DOHC Prius would have a 33 mpg (22*60/40) city EPA rating.

The 2.0 Liter DOHC Non-Hybrid Prius would then have an EPA combined mileage of 37.3 mpg.

 

Hi All,

So, now we can do some sorta economic effectiveness evaluation. A Prius in the real world gives about 50 mpg combined. That is 90.9 % of the EPA 55 mpg combined. Applying this to the 2.0 Liter DOHC Prius, gives 33.9 mpg for the typical real world driver.

Over 150K miles, that is a savings of 1482 gallons of gasoline. To break even with the $2000 hybrid premium (not including maintenance benefits of the hybrid), gas only need cost more than 74.1 cents/gallon. At $3.00 / gallon, the hybrid premium (150K miles in 10 years) is returning an investment profit rate of 22.2 % per year, on fuel alone. Or another way to say it is that the Hybrid Premium is paid for in 67.5 K miles (on fuel alone) at $3.00/gallon gasoline cost.

In addition to this, one saves on brakes, alternator, starter, and probably transmission repairs.

 

Well, how many RPM would an Echo/Yaris/xA/xB be turning at, say,
65 MPH? The Prius can maintain speed at 1800 engine RPM or so,
which is much lower than what most trannies would allow at that
speed. The wide range of the HSD's effective "ratio" counts for a
lot in terms of FE, and even though some power takes an electrical
hop through the system it doesn't really count as "hybrid" if no
current enters or leaves the battery. It's just a transmission.
Steady-state on the highway tends to settle to zero battery current,
and yep, we already know that yields 50 - 60+ mpg long-term.
.
_H*

 

Hi Tideland,

Yes, I agree, its nitpicky.

The previous comparisons on this thread were between the Prius and the Yaris, Corrolla or Echo. Which would not be as accurate as comparing the much more similar Camry's.

0-60 times seem to be variable. One place says 8.3, another 7.3 for the Camry Hybrid. One place says 6.1, another says 6.5 for the Camry V6. Taking the closest - my point of view - thats a .8 second difference, and that very well may be the real differance as far as we can tell yacking about it.

The EPA mileage is the same for all levels of Camry. Since the analysis was a comparison EPA mileages, Cd does not enter into it. No wind on a dynamometer, or hills either.

Of course in the real world, there is a difference. And the Hybrid might look even better in the right hill amplitude enviorment, and match the EPA in the plains. So, this analysis favors the traditional technology vehicle.

I am sure there is a bigger Cd difference between a Prius and an Echo.

Of course the battery weight and big block V6 weight are both part of the tradeoffs. So, its proper to ignore the weight differences between the two technologies, and just compare based on vehicle size and pasenger volume.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Mar 10 2007, 06:53 PM) [snapback]403490[/snapback]</div>

Hi Hobbit,

Your implication would be right if the "non-hybrid" Prius had a 6 or 7 speed automatic transmission. My last car that weighed the same as a Prius ran down the road at 2800 RPM at 65 mph with a 1.8 liter engine with about the same aero drag (complete guess, 1/3 less frontal area, 1/4 th more Cd seems right for the SL2). It was a 4 speed automatic. And even so, it was definately less quick than the Prius.

So, its not a comparison to a "non-hybrid" car to assume the typical non-hybrid weighing as much as a Prius with a 2.0 liter engine (to match performance) is going to be running the engine at 1800 RPM. The proper comparison would be 2500 RPM and the 4 speed automatic transmission with a lockup torque converter which is typical of the "non-hybrid" car in the Prius class.

I think your comment would be correct if you put in all the details. For example; saying that if the non-hybrid 2.0 liter Prius had a 7 speed automatic transmission with lockup torque converter, it would get around 50 to 60 mpg cruising at 65 mph.