Best Non-JBL Speaker Upgrade?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by Sillyboy, Feb 28, 2007.

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  1. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    I just purchased the 2007 package #2 (non-jbl). Should have it in a few days :)

    I would like to upgrade the factory speakers... but I am a bit afraid of installing an amp (running wires all over hell sounds like a pain).

    So... if I am just looking at a speaker upgrade, what do you recommend?

    I am leaning towards the Infinity 6010cs, simply because they seem like a decent deal on crutchfield at $150. But I am wondering if I would be happier w/ something more sensitive (say, Kappa 60.7cs at twice the price), or some other option!?

    Crutchfield's site likes to claim these speakers don't fit in the Prius, but they are lying right? :)

    Ack! I just realized that i have been assuming the basic speaker system still has separate tweeters, is that true? If not, something like Kappa 63.7i or 60.7cs would better?

    Thanks for any input.
     
    #1 Sillyboy, Feb 28, 2007
  2. jwilson2000

    jwilson2000 New Member

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    Lots of posts here in the forum if you search for "Infinity". Make sure to read the excellent how-to from ~sparky~.

    I also have a new 2007 and am planning on installing Infinity Kappas. From what I've read, they're efficient enough to work without requiring an amp if volume is kept at moderate levels. I've heard them in the store and like how much "brighter" they sound than the muddy stock speakers.

    Just trying to figure out if I want to put in Dynamat to reduce outside noise at the same time.

    Wilburn
     
    #2 jwilson2000, Feb 28, 2007
  3. dzoutzidis

    dzoutzidis New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wilburn @ Feb 28 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]398024[/snapback]</div>
    Personally I'm thinking of installing some Boston Acoustic SL60s. I heard them at the store and they sound amazing. It really depends on what kind of music you listen to and your own personal preference. You should really go and listen to some first hand if at all possible.

    As far as the base model goes, the front speakers should be component speakers and the backs aren't so yes you could install the Infinity CSs.

    I'm going to try out just installing new speakers but if I'm not satisfied with that then I think the next step would be to get a sub-woofer. Not an overly complicated install but could cost a fair chunck of change.

    This site has shown people who've installed both 6010cs and 60.7cs so yes i think Crutchfield is just retarded about them not fitting....

    I also just bought an IPOD and a DICE (ipod integration unit) so now I can play all my music on my Ipod through my car and control it using my steering wheel and touch screen. Just thought that might interest you. Also LOTS of posts on this site about that.

    Hope that helps.

    Cheers!
     
    #3 dzoutzidis, Feb 28, 2007
  4. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    Thanks folks.

    For clarity, since we have a 13 day old newborn at home, going out to listen to speakers is just not gonna happen :) I am assuming there are speakers out there, that are such a clear step up for the stock speakers, that it don't matter :) The Infinity's seem to be a favorite around here, so that is good enough for me.

    Sounds like even in the non-JBL version, the front speakers are component. The rear are not.

    Okay, so here is my latest theory:
    Front: Reference 6010cs
    Reader: Reference 6012i

    They are both 92db (so, they match, that sounds appropriate). 95 would be better, but it seems I would have to pay double.

    Any reason not to go with this?
     
    #4 Sillyboy, Feb 28, 2007
  5. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    Okay, nobody spoke up, so those speakers are on order. I will be sure to let everyone know how it goes, suppsoed to get here Wednesday, I think.

    Now, if it turns out that I am still not so happy w/ the sound, I suppose the next steps would be a sub, an amp, or preferably both :)

    Let's pretend I go w/ the Bazooka BTA6100 ala http://www.laaudiofile.com/bta6100.html (I actually haven't spent a ton of time considering what I will actually do, but want to understand this article better).

    I am confused on this part of the article:
    From my understanding, the sub has a low pass filter, but I can't understand how that effects the rest of the speakers. Is there anything about this setup that is keeping the low frequencies from going to the door speakers?

    Also, maybe I just got info overload from reading too many posts, but I am unclear on if there are low level outputs from the HU? I know people have used the fancy "summing" units to get back to a usable signal, but I wasn't sure if that was just an issue for people w/ the upgraded JBL system?

    Lastly, is it safe to say that if I want to install an amp (and I want to stop sending bass frequencies to my door speaks), I am going to have to pull apart... alot... ala https://www.metrotpn.com/documents/PDF%20Fi...sXMradio3.2.pdf ?

    Thanks all :)
     
    #5 Sillyboy, Mar 5, 2007
  6. Presto

    Presto Has his homepage set to PC

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    This is referring to how the amp splits the signal between the speakers and the subwoofer. You would connect your speakers to the sub, and connect the stock speaker wires as the source. It has a cross-over network. The sub would only get sub frequencies (80Hz and lower), and then the upper portion (80Hz+) would go to the speakers. If you just added a basic amp and sub, you wouldn't be able to cut off (crossover) the sub frequencies from the speakers, which would lead to an overlapping of frequencies.
     
    #6 Presto, Mar 6, 2007
  7. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Presto @ Mar 6 2007, 12:13 AM) [snapback]400734[/snapback]</div>
    Unfortunately, the online manual from bazooka (http://www.sasbazooka.com/pdf/current/Tubesmanual01.pdf) doesn't cover the BT series.

    For the Bazooka CS8A5, which has a built-in 4 channel amp for your mids/highs, your answer would make complete sense. But it's unclear (to me at least) if the other bazooka's have outputs for the front speakers.

    At any rate, it is slowly becoming clear to me that either:
    - I just add a sub, and tap off the rear speaker inputs... letting my door speakers (poorly) attempt to hammer out some bass as well or...
    - I tear apart front of my car and get serious. :) And once I am this far, I would certainly want to amplify the door speakers as well (not going to tear apart the whole car and skimp on the $200 for an amp for the door speakers).

    Guess I will make this decision once the new door speakers are in :)
     
    #7 Sillyboy, Mar 6, 2007
  8. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    It's starting to look like I am talking to myself, but what can i say, I am an obsessive guy, so thoughts keep coming to my head about this.

    Anyway, am I crazy or did I read somewhere that the head unit has low level ouputs, but they are not controlled by the volume setting on the head unit!? That seems crazy weird, doesn't it!?

    Assuming that madness is true, and further assuming I decide to be bold enough to install an amp... it would mean there is no reason to tear apart the dash. I just need to grab the existing speaker wires and route them back to the amp.

    I suppose I would need to route all 4 sets back to the amp if i want fade controls to continue to work on the head unit... do I bother w/ that, or just tap the rear speakers?
     
    #8 Sillyboy, Mar 7, 2007
  9. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 7 2007, 12:25 AM) [snapback]401456[/snapback]</div>
    Since you have the Package 2 non-JBL system, you do not have the external JBL amplifier, therefore, you don't have any low level outputs coming out of your head unit.
    You can take all four speaker level outputs coming out of your factory head unit and feed them into a line level converter (like the Scosche SLC-4 available from Crutchfield) and then have the RCA outputs you need.
    You will have to (and really, you will want to) pull out the head unit to do the necessary wiring.
    Once you've done it once, you'll feel "silly" (no pun intended) for having reservations in the first place.

    If you don't want to cut any factory wiring, you can get both the male & female wiring harnesses for the
    plug that goes into the back of the factory head unit (from BestBuy).
    Good Luck!
     
    #9 GeoGeek, Mar 7, 2007
  10. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    Thanks Geo.

    Is there any reason to prefer running low level via the converter vs high level into an amp that supports it?

    I am currently thinking of the Kenwood KAC-8402 amp... if anybody has feeling on that, let me know :)

    It's 4 channel, 60w at 4 ohm, which seems like a reasonable match for the speakers (Infinity Reference 6010cs, Reference 6012i)

    I would go w/ the every popular Kenwood KSC-SW1, hoping everything would fit under the rear floor for uber stealth :) I assume I just "Y" the inputs in the trunk to hit but the amp, and the powered sub.

    I am a bit concerned about heat under there (people have made comments about that amp kicking into thermal protection). There a solution to that should the need arise?

    And lastly... if anybody is having thoughts of "wow, he is trippin'. would be better to buy the xxx amp, and the yyy sub... it would sound better and be cheaper, blah, blah" ... feel free to share, I am obviously new to this arena :)

    Thanks again.
    -Silly
     
    #10 Sillyboy, Mar 7, 2007
  11. Presto

    Presto Has his homepage set to PC

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    Kenwood is a good choice. I originally ran my Infinitys off a 4-channel Kenwood, and it gave good sound. I also ran high-level inputs into the amp and it handled it with no problems. There's no reason to go to a line-out (low-level) converter and then to the amp. LOCs are good for amps that don't support high-level inputs or for people that just want to convert to RCA first for various purposes, like signal processing.

    If you plan to have the amp in the storage compartment, it may overheat, especially if you crank the volume up. If you're not a loud music listener, then you may not have to worry about the amp overheating. If it overheats, you can install some fans in the storage bin. At the moment, I just have one fan on the left sucking air out of the compartment. Other than scorching hot summer days (95c+), the amp has not run into heat situations. I'll get around to installing a fan on the other side to suck-in air once the days get longer.
     
    #11 Presto, Mar 7, 2007
  12. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    Agree with Presto....
    You might consider an amp with a built in fan. Running at 4-ohm impedance you shouldn't heat up too bad though.
    I'd leave the cargo compartment for housing amps. Put a sub either on top of the false floor or over to one side in the cubby holes behind the wheel wells. Yu could do an 8", 10", or even a 12" er all in enclosures less than 1 cubic foot. Mine takes up only about 20% of the cargo space back there & it holds a 12" sub which can be easily removed.
     
    #12 GeoGeek, Mar 8, 2007
  13. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    Wahoo! Got my speakers today, hoping to install them tonight.

    There seems to be plenty of info on removing the rear door panels, but not much on fronts. Anybody have tips (or even better... pictures?) :)
     
    #13 Sillyboy, Mar 8, 2007
  14. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 8 2007, 07:44 PM) [snapback]402512[/snapback]</div>
    nvm. I got it apart, and only broke 1 think :huh: I will post pictures for others.

    So, the tweater is hooked up w/ 4 wires... yellow, black, pink, and purple. Can somebody tell me what all of those are?
     
    #14 Sillyboy, Mar 8, 2007
  15. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 8 2007, 08:28 PM) [snapback]402539[/snapback]</div>
    again, nvm. Found a post from DanMan:

    So pink/violet are what comes in from the HU, and the yellow/black are the crossed over low frequencies for the doors.
     
    #15 Sillyboy, Mar 8, 2007
  16. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 8 2007, 09:26 PM) [snapback]402567[/snapback]</div>
    I think (although I'm not positive) that the wires come in from the head unit full range....the cap on the tweeter blocks out low frequencies from going to the tweeter, but then the other wires simply daisychain off (full range) and go to the mid bass drivers in the bottom of the door.

    You'll want to take the wires coming in to your tweeter, feed them instead to your Infinity crossover input,
    and then jump out to your new mid-bass & tweet with new wires coming off the cross-over outputs.

    Good Luck!
     
    #16 GeoGeek, Mar 8, 2007
  17. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    Too bad the title of this thread can't be changed to "Silly Audio Upgrade", but whatever :)

    I have ordered this amp to drive my 4 door speakers (Infinity's mentioned earlier in this thread)
    http://www.crutchfield.com/S-srCtRVe6AZ1/c...i=489AP1040#Tab

    My bro is sending me an amp and sub too :)

    Anyway, on to my question: What is my situation with a wiring harness?

    I heard reference to Bazooka harness rockin', ... but I guess my head unit (2007 non-jbl) changed, and that is no longer viable.

    GeoGeek referenced a harness from BestBuy? That available via their website? Anybody got a linky?

    Thanks!

    (Still waiting to install my stupid speakers, because Crutchfield didn't send me the adapters/harnesses, since they don't think the speakers fit in the Prius... <sigh> )
     
    #17 Sillyboy, Mar 12, 2007
  18. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 12 2007, 11:01 PM) [snapback]404536[/snapback]</div>
    The Bazooka harness you read about gives a way to tap into the signal between the factory head unit and the JBL amp (in systems that have it). Since your system doesn't have the amp, that harness wouldn't work for you even if they did make a 2007 version available.

    In order to avoid cutting into the factory wiring harness currently coming from the car going into your factory radio, you will need both the male & female wiring harnesses. Metra makes them and I assume they haven't changed going from 06 to 07 (although I'm not psoitive). The Metra part numbers are 70-1761 (female) and 71-1761 (male). They can be bought on-line at http://www.installer.com/wires/
    or you can buy them directly at Circuit City or Best Buy. I'd shop around on-line for the best deal.
     
    #18 GeoGeek, Mar 13, 2007
  19. Sillyboy

    Sillyboy New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GeoGeek @ Mar 13 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]404793[/snapback]</div>
    The references to the wiring changing in the 07 makes me nervous. The installer.com online database, while it shows a harness for 06, shows nothing for 07. Crutchfield told me that don't have something for 07.

    I e-mailed installer.com to ask about it, maybe they will know something concrete.
     
    #19 Sillyboy, Mar 13, 2007
  20. GeoGeek

    GeoGeek Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sillyboy @ Mar 13 2007, 12:32 PM) [snapback]404866[/snapback]</div>
    The differences in the harness that affected the applicability of the Bazooka harness, as I understand it,
    were when you went from a 2004-2005 Prius with JBL to a 2006 Prius with JBL. The difference was that
    what was one big plug in the 04-05's became two smaller plugs in the 2006.....but this was the end of the plug that plugs into the JBL amp under the passenger seat...not the end that plugs into the factory head unit.
    I believe that this difference (that the '06 has) probably also exists in the '07.
    What matters to you, however, is the harness/plug configuration on the back of the factory head unit.
    The way to know for sure is to pull the fractory head unit out and have a look.
    There are several step-by-step guides available here on PriusChat that walk you through how to do this.
    I have a great picture I can send you of the back of my radio when I had it pulled out a while back.
    If yours looks like mine, then you can rest assured that the Metra harness(es) will work.
    Cheers
    Send me a PM with your e-mail and I'll send the picture.
     
    #20 GeoGeek, Mar 13, 2007
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