Would everyone having a Prius hurt us?

As Amory Lovins of the Rocky Mountain Institute reminded all of us at the recent (15-19 February 2007 CE) meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in San Francisco, when you double your efficiency, you double your profit (or cut your costs by one-half). Prius does a magnificient job at cutting green house gases, increasing fuel economy and lowering personal costs.

Prius provides a constructive alternative to our otherwise spendthrift ways.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]399039[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, I think you posted this before your morning coffee.
If gas prices went down, you'd be saving less money relative to other drivers, but you'd be saving more money relative to what you're spending now. Which is really the main point, saving your own money, not watching others spend much more while you spend a little more.

Besides, if you really, truly want to save money, you'd get a used Corolla or similar vehicle. Buying new is never something you do for the money. Sure, you'd buy a little more gas, but when one reliable car costs $6,000 and another costs $25,000, it would take decades to come out ahead.

Of course, Jevons Paradox says that as gas prices go down, people would be likely to drive more, using more gas and bringing the price back up, which would find a balance point somewhere (based partly on available time to go driving) assuming they wouldn't just switch back to their SUVs.

 

I actually think the opposite would happen. If somehow magically everyone had the MPG of a Prius, gas prices would double instantly because oil companies would secretly say "well, everyone's doing it, and they still are addicted to driving, so there's nothing they can do about it." Then they would publicly say "the reduced demand combined with a system built for high volume means that we need to charge more per barrel in order to keep all our equipment operational."

That way they'd be able to hold on to their outrageous profit margin.

 

I do not think an adequate number of NiMH batteries could be manufactured. While they represent a tiny fraction of all uses of nickel metal, its price has increased dramatically especially over the last year.

Also the electronics and motors are quite high-tech and it would be a substantial effort to manufacture them even 10x faster I would think. I would anticipate only a continued gradual growth of hybrid vehicle manufacture.

But if all possible fuel efficiency technologies were employed and the fleet average mpg increased to 40 (magically), the geopolitics of crude oil would change dramatically. At approximately that fleet mpg, the US oil demand can be met by current domestic production.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]399039[/snapback]</div>

Sometime ago I heard that IF all the cars in the USA were Prius, there wouldn't be any oil imports from the middle east, and that would probably put an end to a bunch of conflicts (yea that's for another forum, so I'll leave it there)
Our disadvantages with this are, like you mention, the gas prices would go down, and also the value of our cars. Right now used Prius value go down about 1000 bucks per year compared to 3000 bucks of other cars.
But you shouldn't try to keep it a secret, people like driving mustangs, hummers etc, so it's not going to happen any time soon, enjoy your Prius like the rest of us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]399039[/snapback]</div>

From what you say after this, it is clear that you bought the car for the MONEY savings (of gas). NOT the gas savings.

From this is sounds like your big push is to make sure that you are saving MORE money than others - that the amount you personally save from what you WERE paying is irrelevant? I don't get it. It concerns me that your entire post seems to be based on selfish reasons for buying a Prius. While I don't really care WHY you chose to buy cleaner vehicle, we all have to remember that our public goal has to be more than just "saving money". We need to clean up our transportation. The more who jump on board, the better it is for everybody. Think beyond the pump price, and you'll be even happier with your decision.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]399039[/snapback]</div>

Huh? Gas saved is measured in gallons not $$$. I don't get what you're saying.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Mar 2 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]399077[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, doesn't work that way. I think you are confusing this country for old Communist Russia. Gas, along with just about everything else (except taxes!) works on supply and demand. Contrary to popular belief on this board, Dick Cheney and Exxon do not rule the world. There are many, many other oil companies than Exxon eager to sell as much as oil as possible for the best profit. The price of oil is about to close as a pure Capitalist market as you can get. Sure, there is OPEC and dictators who have some control over prices (which actually is very little), but they know, as any good business man knows, that to make the best profit you have to move as much as your product as possible. Idle gas pumps do not generate profits, income to cover payrolls, taxes, and the rent.

Outrageous profit margins??? I get a kick when socialists and people who think they would be best suited as the dictator of the world think they know what's best for my business and others. So what should any companies profit be? 1%, 5%, 10%??? I have a small business. What if my profit margin was 25%? Is that too much? Should I give it all back to the government? Yea, what a great incentive to expand, grow my business in the future, further my education and that of my children...

Maybe we should make it law that no company can make a profit better than yours and no person can earn more than you. Violate that law and you go to prison for being innovative, creative, and working long hours to better your life and that of your family.

Then we'd all be one big happy family.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 12:05 PM) [snapback]399185[/snapback]</div>

I'm willing to give you a do-over.

Let me introduce myself. I'm darell, and I actually DO save energy - often at great extra expense to myself - for the main reason that I want to. And I can. I'm certainly not altruistic in everything that I do, but I most definitely am in some areas. Interestingly enough, I guess you could say it does come back to being selfish. I wish to leave something better to my kid than where we're headed today.

That's great. But please don't assume that everybody does things for the same reasons. I bought an electric car with 100 miles of range for $42,000. Others have spent over $60,000 for that same car after it was four years old! They are not in it to save money. Trust me on that one!

Well, I'm taking my do-over back since this is a new post.

Global warming isn't the only reason to reduce our consumption. You think the global warming alarmists are trying to control you? Do you realize that it is the oil-producing countries that hold all the cards? They determine our foreign policy. They could shut down our economy over night. They set the price for our energy. Seriously. Think about this a bit more before if you are serious about "what is best for your family." Thanks for getting a Prius anyway. I'm thrilled that it is a good enough car at the right price-point even for people who don't appreciate its other benefits.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Mar 2 2007, 11:09 AM) [snapback]399077[/snapback]</div>

I was going to say the same thing

I agree 100% with the bolded statement

I have had libs try and prove to me that GW is real.. Im sure it is but I believe its a natural occurance as most of the charts show water & agriculture being the highest producers Man is at like 5% or something its a low figure.. And the research monies are going for research & lining pockets..... just my 2 cents. B)

 

It is illogical to calculate based on how much you "save" because savings are dependent upon a higher assumed cost. One should look at real cost. In this scenario, everyone driving a Prius results in a lower gasoline cost plus the reduction in personal fuel consumption. You win.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corysold @ Mar 2 2007, 03:05 PM) [snapback]399185[/snapback]</div>

I live across the river from Philadelphia. There are 3 tall bridges that span the river. At the top of the bridge overlooking the city one can SEE the air. It is brown. Here's a scientific fact: Clean air is not brown. Dirty air is.

This is a problem caused by Man. Natural forces will correct the situation once enough of us become extinct one way or another.

 

As everyone pointed out, you'd be spending even less on gas than you do now. If my calculations are right, I believe if everyone had a Prius or a car that got around 50 MPG, we'd be off of imported petroleum in this country. Then we could start a huge thread on how to spend the peace dividend.

 

If only for the fact that having a Prius will cut back on total emissions, I'd want everybody to get a hybrid car.