Dangerous on ice and snow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lordmakemeworthy @ Feb 25 2007, 07:11 PM) [snapback]396502[/snapback]</div>

The above prove the point that is not the car to blame.

And no, the Drivers License has nothing to do with knowing how to drive, it only suggests that the licensee can distinguish between left, right, front & rear and knows that the left thinky stops the car, the right thinky makes it move and the round thingamajig makes it go left-straight-right. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nicos @ Feb 25 2007, 11:32 PM) [snapback]396508[/snapback]</div>

Here's an alternative view on this subject.

I have checked other auto forums and I see no complaints about other cars stalling in either wet weather when pulling out onto a major road and scaring the crap out of you or on snow and being stuck.

If there is no issue with the Prius, why is it the only car on the market with people complaining about it "stalling" on them?

My 2005 Prius scared me many a time with it's instant loss of power to the drive train one of the reason why I got rid of it - that and the rattles which are worse than a Saturn.

My new car has a proper slip differential and allows me to control the car far better than the Prius. It does not have anywhere near the fuel economy of the Prius, but my commute is now shorter and my highway mileage is around 28 MPG. I chose to sacrifice fuel economy for the sake of safety - I just did not feel safe when the weather turned bad. My relationship with the Prius was great while it lasted, I even drove it 7,500 miles in one go from Seattle to DC and back - and fell victim to the guess gauge being stranded on I40 outside of Memphis.

I guess the people here who wrote about this being an issue forgot the guidelines of this forum. That is, do not complain about the Prius and treat anyone who does complain like a moron suggesting they do not know how to drive. I was kind of under the impression that the Prius required no special training, you just drive it like a normal car? I drive my current car like a normal car, and it has never stalled on me pulling out of a junction.

Sadly, I could not recommend this car - and I would really like to be able to. No car is perfect but the list below is far too long and some items really need addressing:

1) Rattles - in winter it is just dreadful
2) Guess gauge - no excuse for this
3) Stalling - the on/off power to the drive train - come on, can you say limited slip differential?
4) Press the brakes when over a man hole cover or similar, the car lurches forward. Do that downtown Seattle on a hill with a car in front and you better have brown color seats.
4) Plastics that scratch way to easily, I know plastic scratches but this is crazy
5) Premium JBL audio? Hardly - now the JBL in the Camry is nice
6) Nasty hard plastic stearing wheel - I did get used to this in the end
7) MFD washes out in just the slightest of sunlight
8) Car drops 2 MPH for a moment after cruise control is set then returns to your set speed
9) Auto dimming rear view mirror - if only it did - and yes I have the tape over the sensor!
10) That nasty pip on the stearing wheel. Is it for the blind?
11) No retainers on the cup holders - unless you have the Super Gulp cup, the drink moves around


OK. And......go..... attack me!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(chutney @ Feb 12 2007, 01:44 AM) [snapback]388775[/snapback]</div>

It's a light car with a narrow wheel track. My Prius and I just did a swim from Oakland to Sacramento in heavy rain and pretty gusty winds today. Not the first time it has been out in foul weather, but recent memeory is the best to work with . Gusty winds blow the Prius around quite easily, and it doesn't stick to wet roads any better than comparable sized cars - in fact it might be a little worse because the Prius has a lot of weight engineered out of it for fuel economy. If the rain is heavy enough for hi-speed wipers, you have to slow down - in any car - but especially true in the Prius.

A couple of times a week I spend 5 to 7 hours in my Prius in a day, and I am exhausted if I have to fight crosswinds all the way home. But this is an issue with many lightweight cars, it is not that the Prius is particularly bad in this regard.

I have never driven my Prius in snow. It does not surprise me to hear people say that it drives just fine. I have found every front wheel drive car I have owned to be able to get through moderate acculumations on paved roads without much trouble. So again, the fact that a Prius can drive down a residential street in 3 inches of snow is no great feat - My 1986 Dodge Shadow and my 1992 Ford Escort GT could do that. But if I was driving up to Truckee at this moment (heavy snow falling up there) and was choosing between my SUV and my Prius.... Duh! Yeah, there are a lot of Prius sycophants that will give all that anecdotal crap about how they drive around the spun-out Hummers, but that doesn't mean a thing to me. I can predict how my Prius would handle in a snowstorm and I would take a nice Ford Explorer - That would be if I had to go... The smart thing today would be to stay home.

 

Hi Porridge,

My 2000 Saturn SL2 would do the traction control stuter every once and a while. I learned not to put myself in a dangerous situations pretty quick with it, and just wait for bigger gaps in traffic, or the green light. Was the Prius your first car with traction control ?

Curtis SAC,

My Prius would get blown around by cross winds quite badly till I put on the BT Tech chassis stiffening plate. Now it just does a roll reaction, and very little yaw reaction (versus 1/3 of a lane when doing 65 mph) to the big gusts. Was quite a shock coming from the SL2, which was king-of-the road in gusty condtions.

I actually think some of this traction control / VSC nastyness are related to the body flex, that the BT Tech plate apparently reduces dramatically. Certainly the VSC stuff, as VSC has a yaw sensor, and I could really feel yaw in the car before the plate went on.

I agree about that spun out Hummers analogies. See that sorta thing pretty common, although GMC Jimmy's seem to be more common than Hummers in tailgaiting and on their backs in ditches around here. All that really says is that a high fraction of SUV drivers are overconfident , and apparently overdriving their vehicle capabilities. Does not say anything about the relative Prius snow handling ability.

My experience in snow has been good. But I expect to eventually find the limit people in extreme winter locations (Minnesota, Winnipeg) are talking about. Being in Chicagoland, and driving streets that are heavily travelled, I may never find it. Or I may just be kidding myself. Every vehicle has its limits. The front fasia of the Prius is pretty low (better for aerodynamics). If that snow is the real heavy and gummy variety, and deeper than the Prius airdam, there may be some troubles. But in powder, its probably OK.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Porridge @ Feb 26 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]396847[/snapback]</div>

This post is about the perceived mishandling on Ice & Snow and most of the complains are driver and not car related.

The Guess Gauge is a minor issue compared to what the Prius offers.
Re #4; Please do not tailgate.
Re# <all the others> not with my 06



P.S. Why have I mellowed the last few days? :angry:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nicos @ Feb 27 2007, 02:11 AM) [snapback]397096[/snapback]</div>

Please answer my original question. Why is the Prius the only car being reported as having this dangerous behavior?

Re#4 Do I have to leave two car lengths in front of me when the car in front has stopped at the light? Why can't I just apply the breaks like any other normal car without fear of it lurching forward.

Anyway, the car is now someone elses problem. Actually, the dealer I traded it in for who has now dropped the price from $23,999 to $19,999 and cannot still sell it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Porridge @ Feb 26 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]396847[/snapback]</div>

Well, I don't think you looked very hard. This is from five minutes of looking at responses to a google of the words: traction control stall problem

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15791
The new (Sep 2002) issue of Sports Car International magazine, has an article about the '03 Cobra (author is David Colman). Generally, the article is very positive, however, one part of the story caught my eye, relative to stalling problems which have been reported, especially when slowing to make a corner. I quote:

"And as for the traction control "advantage," it must be great for keeping dealership cowboys in check at the slalom rodeo, or braving a Romeo blizzard, but it sure is a bad deal out on the street. Before realizing TC was engaged all the time, I swept the Cobra into a banzai pass on a two laner, only to find the engine go stark-raving dead for a full count of three before resurrecting itself enough to get me past (barely) the guy in front.

http://www.landyonline.co.za/locals/freelander.htm
response to criticism of freelander TC
Once again, momentum is everything, and planning your way over an obstacle. My gut feel is that most people's criticism on traction control follows from them being used to ease back on the accelerator - and THAT'S when you lose momentum when the traction control starts applying brakes.

Jeep Grand cherokee
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.eea888d/3556
I'm wondering if You have traction control on your Jeep ? I have a 2005 JGC w/traction control and it has gone out on me already and the vehical shudders when you turn right or left as the rear brakes are grabbing cause it thinks the vehical is sliding out of control.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(texvegas @ Feb 11 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]388565[/snapback]</div>

I just returned from a trip to central Missouri and got caught in a snow & ice storm while I was there. I have OEM tires and was driving on a sheet of ice with about 3 inches of snow over it. I got along just as well as the rest of the traffic - maybe even a little better. I realize I was not facing deep snow, but the sheet of ice was there and it handled fine in that situation. I have no problems with the Prius and will probably buy another one when the time comes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Porridge @ Feb 27 2007, 02:06 PM) [snapback]397463[/snapback]</div>

*
Because it is not like any other car, it has a complete “by wire†control of the brakes, steering and transmission and this means that the driver has to adapt to these.
There are many posts that mention the fact that the PRIUS is not a car for everyone.

*
That is the reason that traffic engineers implemented the YELLOW light, to forewarn the drivers that they are about to stop. If a driver has to brake the last minute it is probably because he/she was not paying attention.

*
The dealer not selling the car indicates that there are many available, not because of the non-issues mentioned in this and other posts, but because the tax breaks & HOV stickers have expired and those that would have bought a PRIUS, for these reasons only, will not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(texvegas @ Feb 11 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]388565[/snapback]</div>

Wow, after many decades living in sunny coastal California, I got the bright idea to purposely move to the snow belt of western New York. Yes Syracuse, you are our friendly competition. Here in the south towns 25 miles south of Buffalo, we get dumped on, and this year has been a big one - not quite as big as at the end of Lake Ontario, but I still have a solid three feet plus on my property. I traded a brutish 4WD dedicated ski mobile a '94 Isuzu Trooper (with new snow tires) for my 2007 Prius and I couldn't be happier. I love the gas mileage and the traction is excellent even on the OEM tires. It tracks straight in 6-8' of fresh snow and handles just fine on ice. I drive up a steep 500' vertical gain hill to my local ski area almost daily and have not had one bit of regret. Along the way I have passed several 4WD's in the ditch.

As stated by others, the Prius is not for everyone, but I am considering trading in my Audi A4 Quatro AWD for another.

Good luck with your other choice - and pray for snow.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nicos @ Feb 27 2007, 10:01 PM) [snapback]397575[/snapback]</div>

Technically, the Prius steering is electric-assist, there is a mechanical direct linkage between the steering wheel and the steering rack.

The brakes are more complicated, but it certainly is not remote-servo or completely isolated from the brake pedal

If the systems are designed in such a way as to confuse the driver, or create dangerous scenarios, then they must be redesigned to focus on driver control

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Feb 27 2007, 08:08 PM) [snapback]397635[/snapback]</div>

Thanks, I actually have the PRIUS documentation. I chose my simplistic answer for the benefit of the OP.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(texvegas @ Feb 11 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]388565[/snapback]</div>

I forgot that I wanted to apologize for your Prius.