Best Of Both Worlds

FDNY37 can rant all he wants about the piss poor mass transit system out in California, but I but he didn't know GM, maker of the H2 is responsible for it the mess in Los Angeles. Back when contracts were being awarded for mass transit systems, 50 years ago, GM got the contract for L.A. Even though GM makes locomotives, they stated they were going to use the GM buses for LA transit instead of the preferred light rail or subway systems all other major cities were putting in or expanding. L.A is paying the price now, with new additions to the subway costing over $1mm per linear foot to dig.

To expand on the viewpoints of some, a true story. I was at a seafood restaurant with an acquaintance who asked the waiter why a particular seafood entree price was marked out and replaced by a higher price and marked out a second time with still yet a higher price. Oh, the waiter said, that fish is being put on the endangered species list...I don't think we will be getting anymore. My acquaintance replied, "In that case, I'll have a double order".

...point illustrated is that everyone has their own viewpoint on what they are entitled to. I know most Prii owners are the "leave only footprints in the sand" crowd. I just worry that the very common views of fdny37 may make all Americans look arrogant to some countries and cultures. No sense arguing. It's like Democrats and Republicans, cat lovers versus dog lovers, straight versus gay, Christian versus Muslim. Prius owners versus H2 owners is the same argument, unless gas hits $3/gallon, then we can all be smartypants.

Bill
'04 Black BC "Highbred"
'04 White BC
...also a 4WD SUV owner

 

Dang, you beat me to it . . . but it wasn't just L.A. The East Bay, San Jose, Fresno, Stockton, Sacramento, and San Diego too.

http://www.trainweb.org/mts/ctc/ctc06.html

Wow, FDNY37 and I agree on something . . . Quote: ". . . believe me driving an H2 is a let down." I believe you man! Traveling with four wheels on the ground is a big letdown for me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to buy an Italian sports car to try to compensate or relive my glory days of burning holes in the sky at the expense of sane drivers.

Yes, I HATE Hummers! They are the epitome of “conspicuous consumption†and are seen as a poster child for that which is wrong with/in the USA . . . and for that I HATE HUMMERS!!!

 

fdny37

as far as I am concerned you can own what you want and not feel guilty about it. I try to conserve where I can but I still have a lot of toys. I consider my Prius to be one of them. I also have some toys that probably don't get much better mileage than the Hummer, but they are for special times. I have to admit I just don't get the same enjoyment cursing along a mountain in my Prius as I do with the top down in my 05 SL500, and it won't even pull my boat. But then neither will my Prius. We all chose to live our lives in our own way.

as far as my plate goes smoe get it some don't

 

I have only been reading through the PriusChat group for a relative short time, but I have noticed that one individual, Evan E. Fusco, seem to have a rather clear and level headed approach to the things he posts or his replies, even when others seem to go far astray of the topic at hand or even what the group was formed to discuss, THE CAR, not abortion, not gay marriage, and several of the other off group topics. The hostility and ranting seem to really get out of hand. There is a very big net out there and I am sure these non car topics are out there and beaten to death by both sides. I just don’t see the Prius cast as the appropriate venue for these topics especially when the thread was started on a totally different subject. I’m not reading this sight to have my personal opinions changed or supported. I seriously doubt my opinions are going to be changed by people in a car chat group. I enjoy the group as a whole. I come away with a lot of good information ABOUT MY CAR!. Although I did enjoy all of the dog pictures.

Have fun and pick this one apart.

 

04
As a new person to this chat group there are both car related areas and then there is Fred's House of Pancakes which is design as an Everything Else area such as dog pictures, Movies, Various Rants. Overall, I think a good arrangement. Whether this thread needs moved to Fred's is up to the moderators here.

Welcome and Enjoy,

Jon

 

Sorry

You are correct there I go showing waht newbe I realy am. Thanks for the iformation

 

ok here goes...the more hummers on the road the better IMHO....bring on the gas hogs...suck up that oil, cause when there isn't any oil left they'll have to think of something new to get us down the road. Maybe full electric?!?

 

Ok guys get off this guys back. Look at me I drive a turbo 4 cylinder evo. It gets decent mileage. I have been looking at a prius to own. I dont think there is a need for the car. The prius is just a temporary solution to the oil problem. If you want to be a conservationist go build yourself a fuel cell car or help fund the operation. I would feel better funding a fuel cell research for cars.

 

Where exactly will the "fuel" for the fuel-cell come from?

Hydrogen is dirtier overall than oil and definitely not as efficient.

And of course, if you study fuel-cell vehicles, you'll discover they are essentially an advanced version of a full hybrid. There are many shared components.

 

GW Bush is touting fuel cell research but the hydrogen for the research he is funding comes from natural gas. Thus, his research program is pure and simple a dead end. It's welfare for the corporations.

If the promise of fuel cells, or even just hydrogen by itself, is ever realized, it's a good 20 years away, especially if we continue to not even get started.

In 10 years, Toyota and Honda have made phenomenal strides in hybrid technology.

The Prius uses nearly 40% less gas than a similar sized car.

So we need to buy 20 years somehow. If the world's autos could find themselves 40% more efficient over the next 5 to 10 years, maybe that's the way to buy that time.

Oh, and if hydrogen is made from petroleum products, it truly is a filthy enterprise. But if it can be made from water using electicity, and the electricity is made cleanly, then hydrogen has the promise of being very clean. Of course, the hydrogen distribution system would have to be near leak proof as hydrogen by itself would be just another greenhouse gas.

So as can be seen, hydrogen as a solution to our future is filled with "ifs".

 

bush touted fuel cell research because he knew the hybrid technology would have worked so that is why he steered the government away from it. that is why we get a paltry $2000 for buying a Prius.

he had to do something to insure full reliance on oil for at least the next 10 years and pursuing a technology that is 10 years away did exactly that.

pursuing technology that is already here like hybrid technology wouldn t have done it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/special...special.special

need to register to see it.

 

yes I am aware that bush is an idiot.

 

Bush is not an idiot. He just thinks the essence of what makes the USA great are it's leaders, it's CEO's, and all the various other super rich elite of this nation. Thus he empowers them so they can trickle down their wealth to the rest of us.

And the rest of us are just the hired help. He truly believes this and he means well. I think of it as "The plantation mentality".

Sadly, I personally believe that the 20th century in the USA pretty much proved that when you reign in the rich and elite, and empower the common people instead, you get progress like this planet has never seen before and will never see again. (At least not in the USA.)

The 20th century was the American century. I suspect that the 21st will be the European century. They have just enough socialism to make it work, and not too much to cause it's death.

 

First of all, I was really shocked over the reaction you folks had to a fellow Prius owner who happened to own an H2. I wouldn't own one, but I also won't s*** on someone just because they do. As far as that goes, I could care less what a person drives, it's personal choice and I would NEVER s*** on them for it.

My folks taught me a long time ago to NEVER s*** on someone who worked their a** off and had a few nice things. I wouldn't know how to even BE jealous of somebody. After all, they worked for it, they paid for it, so they can enjoy it.

I suppose because I own a 1984 Ford F-150 that gets an awe-inspiring 4-8 MPG I'll get s*** on next? I worked my a** off as a young teen and it was my first new vehicle, so I'll keep it come h*** or high water for very personal and sentimental reasons. I suppose I'm selfish for that, guilty as charged.

I really wish some folks would get off their self-rightious "save the Earth" podium. Just the fact that you're born in the U.S. or Canada means you've already done more than your "fair" share to destroy the planet.

For example, Canada has the highest per-capita energy consumption in the world. I think a lot of that has to do with the more extreme climate and the spatially distributed population (IOW, outside of GTA, Edmonton, Winnipeg, etc, we're REALLY spread thin).

How many third-world babies die just to ensure every one of our babies has perfect health, perfect teeth, a current immunization schedule, and good grades?

As far as that goes, our pets are treated way better than most third-world people are. At least my cat is, he even goes twice a year to the vet whether he wants to or not - usually not.

The 21st century will belong to Europe? How? Most European countries are almost bankrupt, much like the U.S. and Canada. Sorry to say, but the 21st century will belong to China.

I suppose we're to thank/blame for that, as one-sided trade deals signed by Prime Minister Jean Chretien and President William Jefferson Clinton guaranteed Most Favored Nation status to a country that virtually enslaves its workers. Oops, their bad.

Back to the original topic: fdny37, you have a very nice Prius and a very nice H2. You also have a very nice house too. Keep up the good work and enjoy, you worked for it and you paid for it.

 

The 21st century is 100 years long. What it looks like today may not pan out. The USA did not look all that prosperous in 1900 either.

As for China, I've been telling my friends for years that they need to make sure their grandkids learn to speak Chinese because that is where the future is.

However, as I said in my post, Europe has just the right amount of Socialism, and by that I mean anything other than lassiz faire capitalism. China right now has too much socialism, and by that I mean too much centralized planning.

If China can liberalize their economy to allow more freedom, and EMPOWER their currently "enslaved" as you put it populace, then yes, the 21st century is the Chinese century. But if China keeps it's people enslaved, it will be blown away by the EU.

And the USA will go the way of Britain.

 

And I'd like to enter the fray on Hummers and why it is indeed OK for Prius owners to show disdain.

I have no grudge against people buying all that they can afford. You can afford a Hummer and want one then by all means get one. But your right to buy one does not negate my right to dislike it.

Plus, the law of supply and demand tells us that very high users of any product affect the price that low users of that product must pay. Thus, the Hummer owner has an affect on the price that I PAY FOR GASOLINE. I am paying more because vehicles like the Hummer exist.

Hummer owners nationwide are affecting the price of gas upwards. Prius owners nationwide are affecting that price downward.

It's just the law of supply and demand.

So though Hummer owners should be thanking us Prius owners, I say, you are not welcome.

 

that trickle has pretty much dried up around here

 

!WOW!
That wasn't very nice prius 04.
Looks like someone needs to take that anger out on something.
(its probably from the slow hybrid car).
Im just kiddin! :mrgreen:

 

Hey Prius04,

Humvee is transportation and more closely aligned with the basic technology of all cars, including the Prius, than lets say, bicycles. Could you see bicycle owners upset with any 4 wheel vehicle owner, including you, regardless of the mpg? You are in the same camp as the H1 or H2 owner, since you also burn fossil fuel, albeit at a slower rate.

I also have a 4wd 4Runner SUV. Do I deserve to be treated like the Humvee owner? Before that statement effects your feelings about me, I also ride a small motorcycle that gets better mileage than a Prius, which I ride when I need to run an errand without carrying anything. Does that make me more environmentally correct than you?

Although I don't totally disagree with your posts, like me, you wear your passions on your sleeve and hitting the send button without retrospect may send a different message than intended. Keep rereading your draft and delay the post until you are sure your post is addressing the issue a way that continues meaningful dialogue of the thread. As my wife observes about me when I am ranting about a unrelated topic, and in your case about China, it's showing some venting going on...and the Humvee owner was a convenient target.

...Back on topic, I think the source fuel for hydrogen fuel cells will somehow be politically influenced to end up being corn. Ethanol-based fuel will please the midwest that previously influenced our government to mandate all those ethanol formula based gasolines until the higher prices around Chicago cause a furor. I'm sure the Bush administration will steer research dollars in this direction.

Happy Holidays!

 

The Hummer affects the price of gas that non Hummer owners pay. That was the point I was making and I'm sorry if I sounded angry. I'm not.

I suspect that the cyclist that begrudges the Prius and the Hummer equally because they both use gas is the rare cyclist indeed.

I've always had pretty long commutes but there was a time when I had a short commute and I used my bicycle quite often. I stopped because the road just was too unsafe to share with the cars going 60MPH. But I never begrudged their existence.

And my comment on China was in response to jayman above. I've re read it and still don't see it to be a rant nor out of context. It was further connected to another post up higher. That context was related to someone calling Bush an idiot. I don't like it when people do that. He is not an idiot. He is a decent man who has a 19th century view of how the world works. He is also quite intelligent.