Ran out of gas, I want the tank/bladder replaced. HOW?

I deleted your entire post for conservation purposes -- not because I don't respect and sympathize with it. Let me just say, that I have been there done that. And when I say that, I really, really mean I have been there and done that!

However, I don't think its worth all the muss and fuss of changing out your bladder, even though I totally agree that not gettting the range that 46 MPG would suggest that you should get is a huge bummer. We spent 10K more on the Prius than on our Honda Accord LX, yet we get LESS range.

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE our Prius, and noone could pry it from me. Nevertheless, I am waiting for an honest, believable, explanation for this lunacy. Instead of heaping shame and condemnation on people who expect that they should get 46X12 miles of range on a tank, why don't we all expect an explanation. That's all I really want, after all. I am fully capable of driving the car into the gas station and filling it once it has driven somewhere between 300 and 400 miles. I don't expect that either my husbsand or I will ever run out of gas again, and we certainly never thought we would run out the one and only time we did.

Blaming the unsuspecting 28,000 dollars-out-the-door person who knows how to multiple 46x1 for being a fool for not refueling is really bugging me. NOBODY INTENTIONALLY RUNS OUT OF GAS. Please! Please! Please! comprehend that people are busy. They do that multiplication and they believe it to be relevant to their 28 thousand dollar car!!!!!!!!!!!


Okay, I have gotten that off my chest. Back to the gas station I go! I have to go WAY MORE OFTEN

 

The dealers really should make a point of informing customers of this quirk, especially in colder climates. This is not a trivial matter, look how many people just in this forum that have run out of fuel. It is of no concern to me now, but I was quite shocked the first time I filled up and thought that something was wrong with my new baby. Not until I got home and searched this forum did I realize what was happening.

Maybe its just an indication of how little the sales staff really know about their vehicles. My guy was not a fountain of Prius-knowledge! I only noticed one poster who said their salesperson warned them about this oddity.

 

Instead of driving until there's only a drop left, gas up when the last pip starts flashing and it warns you. Better yet, don't even wait for the last pip to flash. Why put off the inevitable?

 

It's really a documentation problem. If the manual stated that the Prius held 10 gallons of gas, then no one would complain. Knowing the 11.9 gallon gross figure drives some people crazy, and they feel ill used if they can't use all of it. Almost all fuel tanks have some dead space. On the Prius, the amount of dead space varies a bit, but not enough to be a problem unless you are trying to second guess it. Our boat has a 37.5 gallon diesel tank, of which only 36 gallons are usable, and then only if we are on an even keel. With any sort of a sea running, the amount of usable fuel drops off from there. It's hard to predict, but then why would I push it that far except in an emergency?

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Feb 24 2007, 08:01 AM) [snapback]395755[/snapback]</div>

I think that's a reasonable suggestion.
Someone else suggested the dealership alert you to it; my salesperson was actually fairly knowledgeable about the car (most aren't), but said nothing about it. Then again, I wouldn't expect him to "warn" me about this; salespeople will do nothing to endanger the deal closing, so if you're looking at a Prius and doing some quick, conservative math in your head about tank range (let's see, say, 50 mpg (conservatively) X 12 gallon tank (rounded up) = ~600 miles between fill-ups - Yeah, Baby!), your saleperson's NOT going to dispel that, even if he's aware of it.
As was also mentioned, NO gas tank's usable capacity equals the stated capacity - this is the way it should be stated in the manual.
I think the OP (and partner by extension) have been beaten up enough about this. The bladder is definitely a quirky aspect of the Prius, but since it's primary job is to prevent the fumes from escaping into the air, the side effect of it's accuracy just needs to be acknowledged and accomodated.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scoot @ Feb 23 2007, 11:19 AM) [snapback]395348[/snapback]</div>

1) Calm Down
2) Take a Deep Breath
3) No, you do NOT have a defective fuel tank
4) The tank/gauge behavior is a known Priism
5) Although unsolicited, here is my advice:
5a) Maintain proper tire pressure (42 front/40 back)
5b) Check your oil level ( a bit under the "full" notch)
5c) Fill up at one or twi pips
6)Enjoy driving

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Feb 24 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]395762[/snapback]</div>

That brings up an interesting problem... What about the salespeople that mislead? Some do it intentionally (like the HOV & tax-credit promises). Some do it because they are clueless (like the purpose of "B" mode). You end up with bad information, from a dealership.

And later on when it comes to a situation like an accident, it is up to the owner to fully understand operation of the vehicle. Here, you get a ticket if you run out of gas. So the liability is perhaps viewed differently than other areas. Of course, freezing to death is another reason to not allow the tank to get too low.

Whatever the case, I've been reading about the bladder for 6.5 years. People have run out of gas from the beginning. Toyota changed the gauge behavior with the new model to trigger the warnings (blinking and "Add Fuel" message) sooner. Some owners simply ignored them, choosing the risk instead. That desire to squeeze out every last drop is too compelling. They accept the liability willingly. So they shouldn't expect sympathy, but in return not get accused. It's their choice.

For me, accepting the 9 gallons non-emergency range is quite sufficient.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jendbbay @ Feb 23 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]395653[/snapback]</div>

May I suggest that this has more to do with your driving technique than with the car. I rarely get less than 500 miles per tank, most often 520-540. How far can you drive your Honda Accord LX between refuelings?

 

following up on IAP's post... and how many gallons of gas does the accord hold?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jendbbay @ Feb 23 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]395653[/snapback]</div>

Really?

Prior to getting the Prius, I had an 01 Accord LX V6, and based on odometer and gas pump measurements, routinely got 27 mpg (it was rated 20/27 by the EPA). And yet I routinely had the gas light come on around 350 miles, and the fuel gauge would "bottom out" or go even further no later than 400. The fill-up would then be around 15 to 15.5 gallons, which suggests there was about another gallon or two to go as the Accord's tank is supposed to be 17.1.

In contrast, I've had my Prius for a little more than two weeks now, and my first tank lasted me 460 miles. And that was at a measly 48.4 mpg. And that was with me filling up with one square remaining without any blinking. (And I got a bit more than 9 gallons in without any trouble, either... maybe I'm just lucky, given all the complaints about finicky fueling.)

Not saying you're a liar; just that my experience is different.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 24 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]395743[/snapback]</div>

Nobody is advocating driving until the last drop is gone! On the first tank of Prius gas -- which is when my partner ran it out -- he was watching the MPG screens. Okay, so he shouldn't have been doing that. But, he was excited to be getting 45 MPG and was watching it going up the hill vs. going down and so on. He read that the tank holds nearly 12 gallons, so he knew that he had plenty of fuel to get home and then to get back to the gas station to fuel in the morning. By his calculations, he had enough to go another 100 plus miles, yet he only needed to go about 30. So that's 50 to 70 or so mile buffer. I don't consider that to be driving the car to its absolute last drop of gas.

REMEMBER. This was the FIRST tank and the car is constantly telling him that he is getting 45 MPG and that the book says it holds nearly 12 gallons. so that would be a driving range of 500 miles. He wanted to drive it about 420 to 450 miles, worst case. When the warning happened, he was pastthe point of no return. There was NO way to go back given the circumstances of the road he was on. In fact, he ran out in one of the most dangerous spots to be stuck.

Had the book said 10 gallon tank, had there been a warning like the seat belt warning or something, THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

I love the Prius and I love this list. But on this one point, I can not believe people can be so obnoxious. Obvously we aren't going to run out again! The point is, we shouldn't have had to face this situation at all.

Its called truthiness or something like that. You know. You tell the customer the truth about a known lie/bug/defect and let them adapt BEFORE they are stranded in the middle of nowhere on the side of an extremely dangerous road!

I am so annoyed over this issue! Why does everyone enjoy torturing the hapless victims of this. Why not insist that Toyota just tell the truth in the first place????????

 

The 1998 Honda Accord EX gets 32 or 33 MPG every tank, every time. Thats a range of around 500 miles. My Prius gets 45 to 47 MPG on average. Thats a range of about 450 to 470 for a tank. However, due to the fact that I do not know preciesely what's up wtih the Prius, we refill mid 300's, as everyone advised when they were yelling at us on this list for being such complete idiots and risk takers. If you only knew how far, far, far from being risk takers we are, you would laugh yourselves silly. We fill up at 330 miles or thereabouts. With the accord, we fill up at 450 or thereabouts. That leaves a gallon or two in the tank.

I KNOW this is no big deal to anyone who has gas stations conveniently spaced all along their drive to and from everywhere they ever go, and really it isn't a big deal to us, now that we know. I just don't understand why those who didn't know that 11.9 was a lie are considered to be idots and worthy of humiliation. We are software developers by trade. We could humiliate people routinely by expecting them to better undertand the hardware and software they are using, but that would be unkind, and would not serve anyone well. Why is it that newbies have to go through this right of passage on this list? Its bad enough that people aren't told the truth in the first place, but when they fall prey to this defect/lie/bug/whatever you want to call it, why can't we at least be civil to them?

By the way, I am not implying that you are not being civil to me, just because you asked me the range of the Accord. Its a perfectly normal question. I get the feeling that a lot of folks come to the Prius from snazzier cars that have heated seats and poor mileage. So for us the Prius is a huge step up in most cases. I just want Toyota to be truthful. The volkswagen bug held 10 gallons back in 1970 before all of you were born. I guess its live reliving my college years.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zqfmbg @ Feb 24 2007, 02:03 PM) [snapback]395890[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jendbbay @ Feb 24 2007, 11:18 AM) [snapback]395898[/snapback]</div>

Was that the tank of gas that came with the car from the dealer? Did it occur to you that they may not have filled it up all the way? Did the low fuel warning sound and display before your parter ran out of gas?

I routinely wait until the low fuel warning sounds, the "Add Fuel" banner shows on the MFD and the last bar on the gas gauge starts blinking. I am generally able to pump in more than ten gallons (yes, it does take patience toward the end, as the bladder stretches). Once I pumped in almost 11.5 gallons. I have never run out of gas with the Prius. Several members have reported fill ups of over 12 gallons.

It seems as if you have gone from one extreme to the other.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Feb 24 2007, 05:01 PM) [snapback]395969[/snapback]</div>

I have always heard that it is best not to run a car down to near empty because of junk that collects at the bottom of the gas tank. So I always try to refill at 1/4 or so. Is that an urban myth?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steve in Arizona @ Feb 24 2007, 07:06 PM) [snapback]395971[/snapback]</div>

No, it is a recommendation from Toyota (and every other car - VW, Audi, Ford... that I've owned). From Pg. 112 of my owner's manual:

"It is a good idea to keep the tank over 1/4 full."

Whether it keeps the fuel pump cool, crap out of the fuel lines, or helps prevent water accumulation leading to fuel system freezing is of little importance. I do not want to be caught in an unexpected situation like a storm, traffic jam, or power outage where I can't get fuel and the car is running dry.

- Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Feb 24 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]395804[/snapback]</div>

Wow, I never heard of that! Is that state-wide? Do other areas/states ticket you if you run out of gas?
Where I grew up you'd just find your car stripped...

 

We got a full tank, or at least assumed it to be full, because all the pips were lit up as they are supposed to be when the tank is full. Remember, that we were assuming we were being told the truth about how the pips work, how much the tank holds, an so on. I would have to add that the tank has been spot on ever since. There's not discrepacy between the dealer fill up and our own. Once we had trouble getting any gas in, but that was at a bad gas station that we ordinarily don't use. It seems to us that the car holds somewhere between 9 and 10 Gallons of gas, but maybe it holds 11.9 or whatever, and it can't access the rest. It is this kind of clarification that I seek.

The first time he was aware of hearig the low fuel alarm and display, was maybe 18 miles before it lost power -- maybe 10 miles or so? I have not figured out if he missed an earlier alarm or not, and I am certainly not going to try to fid out! We have a point of no return on our route home -- there is no way to turn around and the next station is 25 miles away. He lost power half way between the point of no return and the gas. So, I think he missed the first warning. I have already admitted that this was a bad thing for him to do, but I fully understand his mindset in this new feature-full car, on his first day of a new job, after a week of various exciting other job issues. We scrambled like mad to borrow a car to go and buy this car, so he could get to work. Our other car ceased running the day before. To say the least, we were stressed.


You say....

I routinely wait until the low fuel warning sounds, the "Add Fuel" banner shows on the MFD and the last bar on the gas gauge starts blinking. I am generally able to pump in more than ten gallons (yes, it does take patience toward the end, as the bladder stretches). Once I pumped in almost 11.5 gallons. I have never run out of gas with the Prius. Several members have reported fill ups of over 12 gallons.

It seems as if you have gone from one extreme to the other.
[/quote]


I don't know what one-extreme to another means here. We would not be able to get safely to a gas station if we did as you do, however, so we wouldn't dream of it. We have filled up many times, and the most we have been able to get in there was 9 gallons. We are scared to death to take it any further, because the danger of being stranded on our route is substatial, as in there were half a dozen people hit while stopped on the side of the road last year.


By the way, I think the Honda has a 16 gallon tank, but we assume it is 15, and we fill it at 14 or thereabouts. so 14 x 33 is our conservative range in that car. We only ran it out once and that was in the gas station while pulling up to the pump, 9 years ago.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jendbbay @ Feb 24 2007, 07:52 PM) [snapback]396044[/snapback]</div>

Scoot/Jendbbay-

Sorry for your bad fortune, and I regret the sorry responses you have received to date. Usually this is a more dignified and helpful forum.

That being said, your original question was never answered. Yes, the manual states a gas tank capacity of 11.9 gallons. Clearly, in hindsight and based on posts, the operating capacity is probably closer to 10 gallons. The manual SHOULD indicate this fact.

Previously, I have always routinely waited until the last pip started to blink and then consciously drove 25-50 miles more, before thinking about refueling. Many other high-tank milers on this board have done the same. It is/was reasonable and logical. Perhaps some of us should rethink that goal. I have never, ever, been able to add more than 10.0 gallons to an "empty tank" in spite of traveling 450-500 miles on a tank. Yes, I've tried extra clicks, but without being anal.

In my humble opinion, your partner was logical, if not practical, in evaluating his risk taking. After many refuelings, I have become convinced that I'll never be able to add more than 10 gallons of fuel at any one fill. Thus, a 10 gallon limit, practically speaking.

I too have wondered about the variability of the bladder and the efficacy of refills, particularly in colder weather. I haven't been able to discern any measurable difference. On the other hand, I do live in southern California where the temps are more moderate.

As they say, your mileage may vary. Keep a stiff upper lip and rely on these forums, generally. The good comments out weigh the bad and are usually worth the reading.

Please do not discount the value of this forum due to a few rude posters. There are many experts standing by to help those of us who truly need it. D.L.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scoot @ Feb 23 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]395467[/snapback]</div>

I apologize, but given the length of time this thread has gone on, I asked the "partner" question. Yes, my partner and I divide tasks...But, once either of us has gotten several answers to a question involving the problems of the other, we stop...personal responsibility, ya see? Yeah, we do it MUCH better with each other than with our 19 year old son, but still--everyone has to learn sooner or later.

As I said, through my own experience and obsessiveness, I have discovered that my tank/bladder IS pretty close to 11.9 gal. My partner will not take the efforts I take to ensure my Pri tank is completely full, therefore I fill my tank. No matter how often my partner chides me for my (obsessive) efforts to get my FULL complement of petrol.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(siliconhybrid @ Feb 23 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]395475[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mcbrunnhilde @ Feb 23 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]395567[/snapback]</div>

I've tried to watch, but may have missed some stuff--I've only ever heard one beep when it goes from 1 pip to blinking one pip...I have found that I have somewhere in the vicinity of one gallon in the tank (yeah, I DO get up to 11.9 gals) when I hit the blink.


No matter what the gauge says, it NEVER will go much beyond about 8 gals on a fillup without much coaxing on my part. I have learned to cope with this. And my partner knows to leave me be about the Pri, since I've taken the time and effort to learn about MY car, and don't expect anyone else to know better.


Partner, son and I do NOT run out of gas. Son has OTHER problems about accepting personal responsibility, but that's a different story, with, I hope, a different ending. We do watch out for one another in general.

Oh yeah--we also have AAA for all cars and drivers.

Sorry if any of this offends you--it's the trying to get the 19 year old kid to pay attention that has me a bit on edge here.

 

I'm pretty sure everything in life started going bad sometime right around the decision to have a 'parther'. Fix that and I'm thinking a lot of other things in life will straighten themselves out.

I hope I get some kind of reward for a solution to the problem that in no way mentioned the obvious gassing up the car when it gets low on fuel.

:lol: :lol: