Heating solutions

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman @ Feb 5 2007, 08:04 PM) [snapback]385794[/snapback]</div>

I'm pedantic as usual but heat doesn't rise. It flows in any direction to wherever the temperature is lower. It's warm air that rises but I still say that the biggest heat-loss from your top floor apartment is likely to be through the roof so therefore it's likely to be the coldest part of the house.

I'm finding it difficult to imagine the walls of this house as I am unfamiliar with traditional building materials in the US. Here an old house would almost certainly have brick or stone walls and if the house is less than about 70 years old the brick walls would have a "cavity" construction i.e. there would be a 2 inch cavity between the outer and inner parts of the wall. Cavity construction did not start in the UK until around 1920 so pre-1920 brick houses here almost all have solid walls of 9 inch brickwork.

Incidentally Maggie has had a surprising number of replies to her question so I hope she has found something useful but in any case all the replies must have stimulated a lot of thought on the subject.

Another big plus for PriusChat!

 

Maggie,

It is your money, but if it were my money I would not heat the second floor any more than is necessary to keep pipes from freezing. In the example where the neighbor below kept the heat at 85, the person above was not paying for it. If warm floors are important to you then by all means heat the second floor. I think the best short term suggestions are to get a small house for your cat and turn the heat down to 50 when you are not at home and maybe try 60 or even 58 while you're sleeping and buy a down comforter for your bed. Jayman's suggestions are always good, but I don't think you want to do a full remodel, an energy audit might be useful, do you have those outlet and light switch sealers behind the face plates? I do like the idea of blocking off the skylights during the winter. Maybe a nice looking cover can be constructed with insulation stuffed behind it and just put them in place in December and take them down in March? Good luck.

Dennis

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 5 2007, 09:21 AM) [snapback]385489[/snapback]</div>

Why not?

I suggest you look into a more efficient heat source.

My furnace is forced-air, gas, 92 percent efficient.

The original was a converted coal stove "octupus" "gravity hot air" with a gas ring burner. At most it was 40 percent efficient.

My next door neighbor has a 60 percent efficient furnace. He could easily replace that with a 92 percent efficienct unit. I recommended he do that. It would be the best investment he could possibly make, since the return is immediate and substantial, and unlike other investments, the return is entirely tax-free. He hasn't done it yet, and seemingly would rather use more gas and pay $$$$ for nothing.

Harry

 

gee maggie i was in a similar situation as you except my cathedral ceilings had no insulation in the mild western WA winters.

at the time i was single and broke so i could get away with doing this. but i hung about 2 dozen hooks in the walls and ceilings and hung sheets, blankets and a tablecloth from the ceilings. using ropes, i raised and lowered them frequently. now this was just in the living room (i had an upstairs loft that was always warm) this actually made a huge difference in how warm the house stayed. i was using electric baseboard heat and a fireplace (when i had wood to burn which was not often) so my heating costs were huge. doing this made the cold much more tolerable. i had my temps in the mid to high 50's on the lower level all the time. but with the lowered ceilings, turning on the heat (which was off a lot) warmed up quickly and lasted much longer

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 5 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]385865[/snapback]</div>

That is completely inadequate for your climate. Even here a R-40 is required to meet minimum code, and most put in R60 just because there is minimal cost difference, usually 5-10% more.

I went to the Owens Corning website and entered a ZIP for Cambridge, 02142. Owens recommends for that area R-40 for an attic, R-38 for cathedral ceiling. An infrared thermography will help you determine where the heat is going.

A problem with heating a space with high ceilings is the warm air wants to rise. I’m going to correct a poorly-worded statement I had earlier about *heat* rising: I meant to say “warm air.â€

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 5 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]385865[/snapback]</div>

From what you’ve described, and I hope I have this right, the ductwork runs along the rafters; that is, along the ceiling? For heating – especially in a cool climate – that is the worse possible location. The ceiling will be plenty warm, but the floor will be ice cold. Assuming the ductwork has been properly sealed with aluminum foil tape and mastic at all seams and joins, an R-12 minimum with vapor barrier will help a bit with heat flow.

If I understand correctly, the furnace is located in the closet. Is it a direct vent condensing furnace? Is it properly configured to operate as Upflow?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 5 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]385865[/snapback]</div>

A heating contractor or a State agency might be able to point you in the right direction, I personally have no idea where you could find such a service in MA. Here in Manitoba, the provincially owned utility Manitoba Hydro provides infrared thermography and other energy audits.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 5 2007, 11:31 PM) [snapback]385865[/snapback]</div>

I have an extra electric heater in my Dad's room, and even with the temp in the 80's, kitty will still sneak into his room and bury himself under the down-filled blanket. Maybe provide an old blanket for kitty to wrap himself with.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy @ Feb 6 2007, 02:28 AM) [snapback]385938[/snapback]</div>

My biggest single regret when I built the new home at my hobby farm – in 2002/2003 – was that I went with forced air heat instead of with radiant heat. I considered the brand new Weil McLain Ultra PHD aluminum block low temperature boiler, the entire Weil McLain hydronic system (PEX piping, control manifolds, pumps, etc) but decided the extra $3,800 wasn’t “worth†it.

http://www.weil-mclain.com/consumers/ultraeff.html

In 2004 a neighbor about 8km from my hobby farm was building a new home and asked me for advice. He helped me out when I was building my home and we developed a great rapport. Since his house was going to be slab-on-grade I strongly encouraged him to go with the system I wanted, the hydronic solution.

I really envy him now.

Since the Weil McLain Ultra PHD is designed for low temperature, you don’t need fancy mixing valves like you would with a cast iron boiler. Hint: if the return temperature is too low, this can “shock†a cast iron boiler and crack it, a very expensive repair bill. Running in heat-only mode, the Ultra PHD is rated 98% efficient.

He uses an electric hot water heater since the boiler is used just for heat. His annual natural gas bill for a 2,900 sq ft house is $680. And when you walk in that house, you *always* feel warm, despite the fact he sets it to 65 F. If your footsies are warm, the rest of you automatically feel warm. Conversely, if your feet are freezing, you’ll always feel cold.

However, the one thing you cannot do – at least in my climate where it can dip to -40 like it did a couple of days ago – is “pump lots of heat†into a slab-on-grade. Not only do you waste incredible amounts of energy, in a climate with frost down to 6 ft, the entire foundation can undermine. It will also take several days for the slab to heat up and several days for it to cool back down

You need a thermal break to take advantage of some of the thermal mass, but not to have too much heat loss. This company makes the thermal break I used in my basement slab, and the hydronic thermal break my neighbor used for his slab-on-grade:

http://www.beaverplastics.com/beavercurrent/insulworks.html

Beaver also makes ICF (Insulated Concrete Form) wall systems, which is what I used for the exterior walls of my hobby farm home. They’re called Logix ICF.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Feb 6 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]385971[/snapback]</div>

You’re right, that was hastily typed and poorly worded. Warm air will rise – convective – in a building with high ceilings

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Feb 6 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]385971[/snapback]</div>

I can understand you are having a difficult time getting a mental image when I spew words like “stick framing†and “studs.†I’m sure there are EU terms that work but I’m ignorant of them. However this website is a good introduction

http://www.hometime.com/Howto/projects/framing/frame_3.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Oxo @ Feb 6 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]385971[/snapback]</div>

Solid cement and/or brick walls are generally unsuited to this climate, at least without thermal breaks. In extremely cold temperatures, such at the -39 F we had a couple of mornings ago, see attached pic, you would actually have frost/ice on a bare cement wall.

Cement by itself – although it has thermal mass – has generally poor insulating value. As an example, a 2x6 wall cavity filled with fiberglass batt insulation will have about an R-20 insulating value. The same cavity sprayed with a closed cell urethane will have about an R-40 value. Six inches of bare cement will have about R-6.

When I built my new home at the hobby farm I went with ICF or Insulated Concrete Form. This combines the best of cement – a thermal mass to retain heat and stabilize temperature swings – and TWO thermal breaks of 2 inch polystyrene. A finished wall of 12 inches thick will have close to an R-50 value, be very strong, and very quiet.

I went with the Logix ICF for my exterior walls

http://www.logixicf.com

 

Look into an programmable thermostat. You could then set it to automatically set the heat up in the morning before you get up, set it down while you are at work, set it back up before you get home, etc., etc., etc.

Be sure to get a good quality one. It's easy to install. Take the wires off the old thermostat and put them on the new one. Be sure to match the colors of the wires with the corresponding attachment points on the thermostat. It's really not a big deal.

Also, as suggested in an earlier post, a ceiling fan or fans would be a great help.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 6 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]386447[/snapback]</div>

Argh like a typical house project, it's something that would have been a cinch during reno/rebuild, but an impossible $$$ PITA now that everything is buttoned up again. Beats me at this point I fear you're stuck with it.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 6 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]386447[/snapback]</div>

Nope you can't install vapor barrier on the exterior. In a cool climate that will cause terrible condensation to form on the walls. When I mentioned "Tyveck house wrap" it's a special exterior product that is used to minimize air infiltration. However it's "breathable" so moisture can migrate out.

Hope it works out. You may try a natural gas radiant heater, they're great for helping you *feel* warm and are fairly inexpensive to operate. I have never used a residential one but the commercial ones work great, like this one:

http://www.schwankgroup.com/en/heat-infrar...ciples-tube.asp

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 7 2007, 07:43 PM) [snapback]386673[/snapback]</div>

If you know the make and model, either from the invoice, or the label on the unit itself, you could probably find its efficiency on the internet.

As for staying warm, is there anywhere you could put in a gas fireplace? Have you got wool socks and a pair of down booties to keep your feet warm? How do you feel about more cats?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(maggieddd @ Feb 7 2007, 04:43 PM) [snapback]386673[/snapback]</div>

Is the AFUE indicated on the unit? That's the "annual fuel utilization efficiency" rating. Since your furnace is pretty new it's at least 78% efficient by gov't mandated specs. Hopefully it's higher.

 

I believe Maggie has indicated the furnace is located in a closet. I'm unsure of the code requirements for her area, but here only a condensing gas furnace - the kind that draws in combustion air in a 2 inch ABS pipe, and exhausts the byproducts in a separate 2 inch ABS pipe, is allowed in a closet.

Typically that sort of furnace is rated 90% AFUE and higher. There is an inducer fan to force drafting, which is more complicated in that a proving switch is required to signal positive purge/draft before the igniter glows and the gas valve opens.

With the talk of a natural gas fireplace, they also require isolated/separate combustion, so the interior air is never used. I have such a unit in my condo, I can barely see the termination collar on the wall around the corner of my balcony. There is a separate flex pipe for combustion air and a separate flex pipe for exhaust air. This is a "balanced" system, no inducer fan is needed.

However most natural gas fireplaces aren't terribly efficient. Most - including mine - have a standing pilot. They do feel nice when you turn them on, the heat seems to soak right into you. Some allow you to add a fan to get more warm air circulation into the room

 

As far as keeping kitty warm, after I use the dryer this is what mine does to warm up