The comment made like a parent scolding a child heard around the world

“Pope warns moscow patriarch kirill not to be putins alter boy”

Pope Francis condemns Ukraine’s ban on Russian Orthodox Church | National Catholic Reporter

 

Two things can be true at once.
The Ukies have fought bravely and well against the Russies since 2014 - AND they've not been a paragon of virtue and light as a nation.
Pre 2013, I would not have let them NEAR a NATO membership because (a) I read how WW1 got started and (b) The Ukies were a fairly horribly run nation post Soviet Breakup.

I do not mind terribly the fact that we've spent OUR money and Ukrainian lives profligately in killing Rooskies and breaking their things, but sooner or later we're going to have to move the car wreck off the side of the road and get on with our lives.
We've expended all of the older consumables and what @bwilson4web calls 'low s/n equipment' but the drain on our stores and equipment is starting to tell - and the dollah cost has been non-zero as well (although a bit of it has gone back into our military contractors.)

We're also going to be in a shooting war with the ChiComms pretty soon - OR the same war mongering liberals who want to be generous with other people's money and brave with other people's blood NOW will feel differently (for some reason ) when it's Taiwan.
Unfortunately, a blockade or invasion of THAT nation will bring about 'slightly different' economic consequences.......

 

He should do what, just expose his belly to the aggressor then? Bloody astounding stance, man.

 

Ukraine WAS one of the most corrupt countries. They got tired of it, and went through their own version of an Arab Spring

Euromaidan - Wikipedia

When it was over, they kicked out Viktor Yanukovych, (a Russian puppet) and elected Zelinskii. Yanukovych fled to Russia

Viktor Yanukovych - Wikipedia

Ukraine has taken many steps to end the corruption and oligarchy since, starting with electing Zelinskii. That's when the Russians got pissed and invaded. That was back in 2014. Yevgeny Prigozhin invaded Crimea with his paramilitary troops. Another Prigozhin enterprise was the Internet Research Agency (look up the Mueller report on what they did in 2016).

@ColoradoBoo, you're full of Russian propaganda. Russia committed war crimes. In no way will Ukraine and Zelinskii shrug that off

War crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

What happened in the Oval Office was a disgusting betrayal of an ally and a friend. Someone who's trying to do what's right by his country. Americans negotiated with Russia in Saudi Arabia without anybody from Europe or Ukraine. They sold out Ukraine and their dreams of ending the Russian corruption and oligarchy in their country.

As for WW3, Ukraine gave up all of its nuclear weapons in a deal with the United States and Russia. It's Russia that's threatening with nuclear weapons, has launched IRBM MIRV at a Ukraine, threatened and launched an attack on Chernobyl (making it a dirty bomb), and threatens the nuclear power plant at Zaporizhzhia.

Russia is a corrupt oligarchy. They should have taken Ukraine in 3 days, but haven't managed that in over 3 years. How? Because of all of the corruption. Everything was stolen, or rotted out. Russia is done as a country. The only thing holding it together is propaganda and lies. They're sending their troops into battle on donkeys, bicycles and hoverboards and you think Ukraine should surrender? Even if Russia wins the war today, they're done as a country. Everything has been stolen and there's nothing left.

 

The good Lord is going to do something I predict, it is so bad what 47 is doing, pure evil. We have Lucifer’s helper in the WH.

 

The policy of appeasement led in 1938 to the Munich Agreement, the loss of Czech territory, and the resignation of the Czech president.

But the policy of appeasement did not stop the Second World War.

 

...OR start it.

SO.
I listened to the entire 50-ish minute presser yesterday, rather than JUST the highlights reels and the drive-by diplomats.

Submitted for your approval (I chose a non-triggering source)

 

Oh?

The history I learned was a little different - or did you mean Italy - or RUSSIA??
Maybe we're talking about a DIFFERENT WW-2???
Russia changes sides and they won.
According to WESTERN history, World War II began in Europe on September 1, 1939, when Germany invaded Poland - which is 'scientifically' correct. (**)
HOWEVER (comma!!!!!!!!!!!!)
A few weeks later, in 1939 the Soviet Red Army invaded the Kresy regions of POLAND in accordance with a DEAL that they made with NAZI GERMANY!!!!
At the opening of hostilities several Polish cities including Dubno, Łuck and Włodzimierz Wołyński let the Red Army in peacefully, convinced that it was marching on in order to fight the Germans!

It would take Poland 54 years to be rid of the Russies....which is why (unlike much of the REST of the EU!!!) they actually pay their way in NATO.

Imperial Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931 and China in 1937 - but THATS not important to WESTERN history. Germany invaded the Sudetenland in 1938.

 

You just believe whatever he says. If he says Z will start ww3, you believe.
Putin will start it. Already started this war. I have never seen in a fairly long life people who just believe some talking head. Maybe Jonestown where the cult leader says take poison, and they did.
Wait, 45 did go to poison and some did try it.

 

Let's talk about all those missing Billions.

Trump claims on his social network that the US gave Ukraine $350 Billion. Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

That's just not true. (Don't think that's the only whopper he's told about funding. He also claimed that Puerto Rico got $92 Billion of the $42 Billion allocated by Congress after Hurricane Maria - except that he cut off aid after only $14 Billion
Fact check: Trump says Puerto Rico got $92 billion. They've seen only a fraction.

I don't know where you got the idea that Trump either knows the facts or doesn't lie. I don't believe he's capable of telling the truth at all
Washington Post counts 30,573 false or misleading claims in four years by Trump

So, if you look into it a bit more, the actual military aid given by the US to Ukraine is less - a lot less
"The Special Inspector General for Operation Atlantic Resolve (OAR), which handles U.S. oversight of this spending, states Congress has appropriated or otherwise made available nearly $183 billion toward Ukraine and OAR, of which $130.1 billion has been obligated and $86.7 disbursed, between fiscal years 2022 and 2024.
This funding also includes security assistance for NATO allies in partner nations, so not all of it is allocated for use specifically in Ukraine."
Fact Check: Did the US Give $350B to Ukraine, as Trump Claims? - Newsweek

So there's a lot of the missing funds - Trump lied, and of the appropriated funding, a lot of it still hasn't been disbursed.The US has been slow-rolling a lot of aid to Ukraine since the beginning of the Russian invasion. There's a bunch of the other missing money right there - still waiting on some sort of final approval.

There's more. Ukraine isn't getting all that much in actual cash money. They're getting weapons and ammunition.

A lot of these were rotting away in US stockpiles because we've moved on to bigger and better things. The US taxpayers were actually going to have to pay to get rid of the stuff. Ukraine did us a favor and used it on the Russians. Where's the cash given to Ukraine there? We send the Ukrainians something that has no value to us, record millions on the books of aid given to Ukraine and get to replace our inventory with the weapons we'd use.

There's also the other weapons we've sent. Take for example the 155mm Artillery shells we've sent. These are bought with the allocated US funding from factories in the US and sent to Ukraine. The cash never left the US because it was used to buy the artillery rounds. This money has been spent employing US workers here in the US.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/29/biden-admin-map-states-benefit-ukraine-aid-00129068

Zelinskii didn't visit the US to campaign for the Democrats. He visited the munitions factory in Pennsylvania to thank them for their work.
Ukraine's Zelenskyy visits Pennsylvania ammunition plant to thank workers and ask for more | AP News

of the "Hundreds of Billions of dollars given to Ukraine", where's the missing money? It doesn't exist. I'm sure that there's been a little go missing. Nothing like this ever reaches 100%, but you're not going to find it in any of Zelinskii's "foreign bank accounts".

 

Great rebuttal

 

One C-C-P deserves another.

We've been doing this since 2014.
155mm shell stocks ARE depleted.
https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-lend-500000-rounds-artillery-shells-us-report-2023-04-12/
FGM-148 (Javelins) are also somewhat depleted.
Is the United States Running out of Weapons to Send to Ukraine?
We're putting more and more flight hours on reccie birds and MQ9s.

The idea that people let idiotic comments about military weapons and munitions "rotting away in US stockpiles" go unchallenged means that Biden isn't the only person who says stupid things about subjects that he doesn't know JACK about (Jack!) OR Trump isn't the only Lying Liar face in DC.

Pick your poison.

 

Not enough to meet their spending obligations!!

Says WHO???
The Ukies?
Then WHY are they 'buying' from the Turkeys and US?
The CCP's DJI is the world's largest drone manufacturer, with over 70% of the market.

They've actually been doing that for a while - AS THEY SHOULD.
If Superconductors are the new 'black gold' of the 2020s then they should be made in more than one nation!
As with SSNs and SSBNs.....
Missiles....
EW, Radar, Sonar....

Our military needs to shrink a little....

Boeing has been making the gifts to Airbus lately....
Their airframes are a little too automated for my taste but stuff doesn't fall off the aircraft.

That's not quite how that works.
If the EU is going to finally start lifting their end of the log, they're going to need intel....FROM US.

 

You assume I'm a Biden fan - I only am as far as I despise Trump and what he's doing to the country. Read what I wrote again. You won't find a bunch of pro-Biden there. The Biden slow walked Ukraine support so long it allowed the Russians to slowly take more parts of Ukraine.

Are 155mm shells rotting away in US storage, absolutely not. I never said they were. I did say that Ukraine was using them, and the US buying them was creating US jobs. My point was that the money for these 155mm shells wasn't being given to Zelinskii, but being spent in Pennsylvania.

If you're worried about 155mm shells, don't worry anymore. The German company Rheinmetall is ramping up their own production of these, and Trump's recent maneuver has shown Europe that the US isn't a reliable partner. They're going to be ramping up their own production shortly. There goes those jobs in Pennsylvania.

The stuff that was rotting away in storage that Ukraine was able to make use of was the short range GMLRS rockets for the HIMARS systems. The US didn't need these as more effective, and longer range missiles are available to the US.

How many HAWK air defense systems and missiles does the US need? Ship them all to Ukraine and let them take care of a few Shahed drones aimed at Ukrainian cities.

Biden slow walked giving Ukraine ATACMS, and slow walked their ability to use these against targets in Russia. I'm not a fan of that because it's a slow way to lose a war. Let your enemies build up stockpiles of weapons, troops, and supplies, and handcuff your friend's abilities to do anything about it. Don't worry, Ukraine has been developing its own long-range drones that are capable of hitting refineries and fuel storage depots, and weapons storage areas up to around 1000 miles from the Ukrainian border. The only thing they need is to ramp up their production capacity. The world is already looking to Ukraine as a leader in drone manufacturing and tactics. After the war is over, Europe will be buying their drones from manufacturers in Ukraine, and not the US.

That's only one example. How many F-16s does the US need? We've moved on to F-22s, F-35s... Getting rid of these, and their spare parts, and maintenance contracts would save the US a ton of money. That's the decision that Norway made, they just had to wait for US permission to do it (slow-walked for about 2 years by the Biden administration).

One of the things the Trump administration did almost from the beginning was to remove all restrictions on where Ukraine could target their US-made weapons.

 

Ida never guessed.

Actually I don't need to. I've never claimed to be the sharpest pencil in the drawer but I CAN read.
I even retain parts of it.
You either have military experience and you hate Trump more than you love the country or you just hate Trump more and you haven't had much military experience.

Oh?
What are their production numbers?
(Hint: not 100,000 a year as of 2023 despite their ambitions to ramp up to a million rounds per year.)
The factory in PA........what are their production rates?
Army races to widen the bottlenecks of artillery shell production
The US asked to buy 100,000 shells from South Korea in '23, but the South Korean government chose to 'lease' the shells instead.
We've since shifted more in from that region.
100,000.
Gee, I guess it's a good thing we're not in danger of facing off against a near-peer for in WestPAC - huh?
Are you familiar with Ukie artillery doctrine? (Hint: It's the same as the Rooskie's)
What's their current use rate?

I'm not a track toad, but the (G)MLRS seems to still be in production - and was one of the consumables that we have insufficient stocks for, IIRC.

ALL OF THEM.
The F15's too!!
The Viper is an excellent air to mud, SEAD, and in a pinch it can fight its way to and from a target, and the older airframes can be used as trainers.
We only have about 180 22's that are serviceable and their availabilities are getting lower and lower every year - but compared to the Penguins, they're more reliable than Priuses are!!!! According to the Googles, In 2023, the F-35A's mission capable rate was 51.9%, which is well below the Air Force's 90% objective (which is below what their expectations SHOULD be!)
Heck....they make my beloved Navy's LCS and DDG-1000 programmes look like unqualified successes!!!!
They should relieve, for cause, more than a handful of four-stars in all of the branches and 'incentivize' their replacements to get their poop in a group because right not I'm not especially worried about 155mm rounds.

I'm worried about airdales than can't fly, swabbies that can't drive boats, and people in the big green machine that can't use their weapons......REGARDLESS of how empty the larders are getting!!!

Oh...
.....and pre-2024 recruiting and retention in all branches of the military were getting dangerously low DESPITE a poor economy!

Always a VERY dangerous sign in a military.

 

Now we have in the second month of the dumpster fire China announcing they are ready for “any war.” I think people know China could kill every person in the USA and replace every one with their citizens, and still have almost a billion people in China.
As for then President Biden slow walking help to Ukraine, he did as well as anyone could with the repubs in Congress taking revenge on him for something he didn’t do in the election. Also the little matter of Russian nukes are real, and a mad man is their president with dictator power. If putin says push the button, the button will be pushed.
4547’s theme song, “money money money” on the tv show is real. Money is what? NATO should pay more money. That’s his focus. Money value can disappear over night. Just ask middle Europeans.