Transmission Fluid

Hey there, interesting, I remember when I drained the rear axel on mine, it seemed significantly thicker than WS, it almost looked like a 75w gear oil but that’s just my assumption. Cheers!

 

It's funny they pulled out the "carbon-neutral society" card, when talking about their HEVs, PHEV's,
which are fossil fuel burning vehicles.

To be 'Carbon-Neutral' you have to STOP BURNING STUFF.

 

Toyota is working on hydrogen burning engines. An e-fuel is a better option for cars just in the packaging stand point. They are carbon neutral, but would still have the other pollutants from combustion. Paired with a fleet of PHEVs, the higher cost becomes acceptable.

 

You need to study up on hydrogen. It's a way a transporting energy. It's not an energy source. There are no Hydrogen Wells.
It comes from other energy sources, then is transported somewhere as a cryogenic fuel.
It is far from 'Carbon Neutral'.

Any engine can be slightly modified to burn Hydrogen, propane or CNG. This has been around a long time.
What toyota is doing is wasting their time by not getting into BEVs and just dragging their feet, for some reason.

This 'packaging stand point' is ultra high pressure, maybe cryogenic/insulated, tanks mounted somewhere in the car.
And burning it in an engine is an inefficient way to use its energy. At least run it through a fuel cell to power the EV.
This is all only if you really think a liquid/gaseous way of fueling you car makes sense.....

Meanwhile,, glance over there at all the Solar Panel farms and Windmill farms. They send their clean, renewable power through existing power lines to your home to charge your BEV overnight. No new infrastructure required.

 

Totally aware and agree on hydrogen. It's why I support e-fuels. Atmospheric CO2 is combined with the hydrogen to get useful hydrocarbons, even gasoline. No need to modify new cars, or even the existing fleet, nor any changes to existing infrastructure. it costs more, but it isn't a big one with PHEVs running on electric 80% or more of the time.

 

I suppose it's a way to get old Gassers to run on a fuel that's slightly less CO² producing than the straight fossil fuels we use currently.
But once again this 'hydrogen' requires lots of energy to produce, then CO² extraction from the air requires lot's of energy, then the process of turning these two elements into a liquid fuel requires gadknows how much energy, then the transporting of this liquid 'efuel' to your local dispensary requires a known amount of energy.

All this ^, just avoid having a BEV charging in your garage from mostly clean, renewable energy?
You can see what's in the recipe of your local electric grid here: Power Profiler | US EPA

This is my local recipe! Still 31% coal,,, dangit.... But! getting better everyday!
Everyday there are windmill blades and solar panels on trucks.

 

Porsche is already doing this down in Chile where there is plenty of wind. Production had just started before the pandemic. The pre-inflation price per gallon was going to be $10 in Europe. The company they are partnered with was starting construction for facilities in Texas. IIRC, those were going to be for methane, methanol, and LPG. I think there is another project in Africa doing methanol for ships in the Rift Lakes.

Porsche's plan was to have fuel for motorsports and classic cars. The costs will always be too high for daily car use. With a PHEV that only needs to use the engine on long trips, then overall fueling costs won't increase with it.

 

K, so lots of interest in making liquid 'e-fuels'. But why? Who is going to buy these very expensive alternates to existing fossil fuels?

"methane, methanol, and LPG" are all existing alt fuels with limited distribution.
The city buses around here run on CNG (methane), those big humps on the roof. Filled from the existing NG pipes.
Indoor fork lifts and such run on LPG (propane),
and ethanol is everywhere around here (flex fuel pumps down at the QT) 10% regular, up to 80% flex.
Don't know much about methanol. What is it converted from?

This all to be able to pump liquids/gases in minutes to fill up.
Versus, plugging in overnight which take 20 seconds to charge up.

Some people and companies are stuck on the idea of liquid / gaseous fuels,,, which is Burning Stuff.
Not counting the inefficiencies of producing it and transporting it to the final users.

We need to stop BURNING STUFF.

 

Couple of dead-simple options, to "slow down" the rate of burn:

Drive less.

Consolidate chores where practical. (avoid multiple short runs)

 

Porsche is planning for when those fossil fuels aren't available at the corner station. Some major markets are moving that way.

Methane is a basic chemical feed stock, and has uses beyond burning. Most of our methanol comes from it, which is one of main contenders for cleaning up shipping fuel.

Indoor forklifts also use hydrogen.

Also means not having to build out distribution infrastructure as these can be shipped through existing systems.

Not everyone wants to wait 20min, 30min, or longer when on a trip, or when their vehicle use greatly reduces the EV range, as with trucks towing.

What of the long distant trucks, ships, trains, and planes? Or the many places that simply don't have a robust electrical grid to support plug in vehicles? Battery electric vehicles are not a solution for all uses and jobs.

 

1. Why are car manufacturers getting into Alt Fuels? Wouldn't this be the domain of refineries, distilleries, the chemical scientist guys?
Car tinkerers should stay in their lane. This is as silly as claiming toyota is a research leader in EV battery technology. How many EV's has toyota produced?
2. That's a new one on me. I've only seen Propane tanks in use. Can you reference your claim?
3. This is the Big Inconvenience. Some people don't like any changes, right?
Poor babies, can't take a 10-20 minute walkabout every +250 miles while on a long road trip. "I don't want to wait,,, for anything....."
And yet, how often will the average person drive on a "Long Trip"? 2-4 times a year?
"Oh the inconvenience....I could never own an EV because of when I take a long trip 3 times a year."

And yet if you add up the inconveniences of:
> Driving to the QT every few weeks/days, the time it takes to divert to the QT, the time it takes to pump that smelly stuff in any gadawful weather, and the same inconveniences of time and expense of scheduling routine oil changes,
>The act of taking 20 seconds to plug / unplug an EV each evening / morning and the horrible 20 minutes at a DCFC while on an infrequent road trip.
Which takes up more of the owner's time?

I won't bring up the operating cost differences, like how I drive for Less Than a Penny a Mile.
$0.026/ kWh or $0.036 / kWh winter/summer from 12 - 6 AM. The Bolt is rated 3.9mi/kWh.

4. OK, I'm in complete agreement. The energy density of liquid fuels are required with 'long distant trucks, ships, trains, and planes'.
I luvs me plane trips! But it's not sustainable....

 

This is like my prius buddy who claims every car should be a hybrid like a prius.
'That will save our bacon...."
So a hybrid vs the gasser model of the same car is what? 20% more fuel efficient?
BIG DEAL.

Just like your 'slow down the rate of burn'. 20% better??? Big Deal.

We need to stop burning so much stuff.

 

Cause customers of their ICE cars with six figure price tags are facing a future where they can't use those cars. As I said, they teamed up with another company; one those chemical scientist ones. How many companies focused on alt fuels has the funds to get their projects started?

Relying on oil companies and refineries for alt fuels is like relying on them for hydrogen.

Fuel cell forklift - Wikipedia

Do you want people to move away from burning stuff or don't you? It will require compromise.

EV pick ups can see their ranges cut in half while hauling or towing. One with 300 mile range will have to stop and wait every 150 miles while doing so.

There are roles where that charge time is a problem. Do you want your ambulance to stop for 30 minutes? Yes, we could make BEVs work, but at the cost of a bigger fleet and the facilities and crews to support them.

The Ramcharger PHEV coming out will have an EV range of 150+ miles. PHEVs are heading towards longer EV ranges, which lead to less ICE use. Toyota's maintenance system is archaic; the Volt could go 2 years between oil changes. I'll leave it to the consumer to decide which pros and cons are important to them.

And yet you did. Your electric rates are incredibly cheap. Current US average is over 17 cents. Fast charger rates are at least double that; a charge runs about the cost of filling with premium gas.
Average energy prices for the United States, regions, census divisions, and selected metropolitan areas : Midwest Information Office : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
How much would a PHEV with 50 mile EV range increase your costs? with 100 miles? 150? That is the range of EV ranges we'll see in PHEVs if we ever get e-fuels at the pump.

 

If it's legal and I want to drive it...I will. No one can tell me or guilt me otherwise.

That's my response to what this GEN 5 Prius Transmission Fluid thread morphed into.

 

1. idk, do you? They've been trying to make a lead-free aviation gasoline for a long time now. Alt fuels are hard.
2. Man did you find a fringe... Fuel Cell Forklift,, indeed... They're everywhere...and only $200k a pop. (I made that up)
3. I think it's the only thing that will help. Will it help before TSHF?
What compromise is this? The 20 min recharges, only when on road trips?
I've been driving a BEV since '15. No Compromises Found.
Only incredible savings and more time not dikin with 'Car Maintenance'.
4. This is a generalization. An anti-EV generalization.
5. BEV's work now. Period. Not sure what you're trying to say here.
Did I mention <1 cent per mile? Did I mention <20 seconds to plug/unplug daily?
6. 'Tis True. What you posted sounds great! Right? But it's another generalization. Lots of areas have TOU / EV friendly rate plans.

 

Yep, this thread is way off topic.
Fortunately my Gen3 has had the transaxle fluid changed recently. I'll check in here later if and when I want to change it again to see what the latest and greatest fluid is. I was always skeptical about toyota's generic WS ATF that they just used across their fleet.

Do you remember when they made it illegal to drive a polluting car by taking the emission controls off of it?
Someday smelly cars will be illegal.
Relax. Have you ever driven an EV?

 

1. Lead free gasoline of the octane for planes exists. The delay is in all the testing to get the FAA to okay its use.
2. I'm all for it. Now, how do you think banning ICE cars in the US will go?
3. Are going to rent every driver in the US a BEV for a week so they can see this no compromise themselves? A fifth of early BEV adopters in California went back to ICE of some type. Many of that group wanted to stay with a BEV, but limitations in the cars or charging infrastructure prevented that.
4. Truck efficiency drops when towing, whether ICE or EV. For a BEV model, it will mean several more charging stops over driving empty. RAM switch the introduction of their plug in truck around to release the PHEV first because the people willing to buy one prefer that to the BEV.
5. It was in reference to the EV ambulance and other vehicles that require fast and/or unscheduled deployment. Since a emergency patient can't wait for an EV ambulance to charge, you have to field more vehicles to ensure the same coverage as an ICE fleet.
6. The question was how much more a PHEV of those EV ranges would cost you.

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.

PHEV + e-fuel has the same carbon footprint as a BEV. Hydrogen is a non-starter as a car fuel, but we do need a robust green hydrogen capacity. First for fertilizer, and then to reduce carbon in other areas. Supporting long distance travel of plug in cars can be one of them.

 

@Bill Norton I've had a ride in an S and 3 from co-workers. While nice, they don't work as unrestricted DDs the Prius and Rav4 provide. I got tired of waiting for the new Roadster "Toy", so bought a C7 ZR1.

As to thread topic...I'm a career wrench and maintain all my vehicles on severe duty cycle..."plus".