Large custom HV battery upgrade help (gen4)

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by Edrive, Feb 5, 2025.

  1. Edrive

    Edrive New Member

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    I am trying to get some info on upgrading the hybrid battery on a Gen4.

    Can you replace the stock lithium cells in the gen 4 with custom more dense cells that match the nominal voltage?

    The new lithium cells would match the stock lithium cells in number and in voltage, meaning there would be 56 cells and each cell would be rated at 3.6 nominal voltage just like the stock gen4. The total nominal voltage would also match the stock battery: 201.6v....

    However the overall capacity would be about 5x larger than the stock battery at around 5kWh!

    My questions and concerns are in regard to any potential problems the ECU/BMS might have with a battery being 5x larger than the stock battery. Does anyone know if this will raise issues with the SOC algorithm, etc? Any codes that this might throw?

    Nothing will be altered in the ECU, etc. Therefore, will the ECU/BMS be unaware that there is a larger capacity battery installed and operate just like the stock battery, however, now taking 5x longer to charge when Minimum SOC is triggered?

    Thanks
     
  2. MAX2

    MAX2 Active Member

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    What are you by profession?

    A dreamer?
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Unfortunately, no.
    While anything is possible, not everything is practical
     
  4. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    You''d have to ask someone who knows how to reverse engineer the system. Conversion have been done in the past, I haven't heard of anyone doing it on a Gen 4 yet. And I sure don't know.

    Here's what is said to expect from the Gen 3 plugin PiP lithium upgrade pack
    What to expect:
    The first few months is the break-in period, you will notice the charging limit/capacity gradually increase from stock 15 miles to 30 miles. Based on the new charging limit, you will also gain more EV range as computer learn, adapt and utilize the higher capacity. We have also found the level one charger speed can get more charge into the battery than level two charger, as the onboard charger isn't sophisticated enough to perform trickle charging at higher state of charge.
    Warranty:
    2 Years, unlimited miles

    And this thread has pics of what can happen if done wrong or handled improperly after install.
    Add an additional 8Kw battery to double the range | PriusChat
     
    #4 vvillovv, Feb 6, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2025
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Someone who knows would be too smart to waste their time
     
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  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    I think those that did that added a BMS for the additional battery though. The OP is considering using the stock one. Even with a matched battery pack, the BMS is not designed to be able to charge 2 battery packs at once.
     
  7. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    A BMS and if the bms is not equipped with one, a balance board are usually required for lithium packs that match the cell type specs and series / parallel configuration and are tested in most any DIY build configuration.
    That's one of the reasons lithium prebuilt packs are still big bucks. Than the packs need to be tested in the cars they are going into to make sure the systems function properly together. And how are tests done in every situation a car is going to be exposed to within it's lifetime and how to categorize feedback for early adopters or alpha beta testers.
    It's not a thing to take lightly especially these days. Yet there are still some brave souls that find the challenges exciting and worth the effort it takes to push on. ie; @jacktheripper and mudders linsight project and Peter in the UK has done multiple lithium installs into NiMH insight crz and I believe also a civic, or at least part way there. 3prongpaul also did a Gen3 Prius dual pack. MikeD did a lithium upgrade to his Gen 1 Insight(s). And share his design for the GC01 grid charger that both Hybrid Automotive and Max Volts got their inspiration from, or so the story as I got it goes. I also look up to all these dudes in no particular order.
     
    #7 vvillovv, Feb 6, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2025
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  8. Edrive

    Edrive New Member

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    I appreciate the posts..

    Yes the original hybrid battery would be removed and the stock BMS would be transferred/wired to the new lithium cells. So there would only be one battery recognized by the BMS or (56 individual cells) just like the stock configuration. No parallel configuration with stock battery, just 56 cells that have larger capacity but same voltage.

    In summary: Stock HV battery removed-(no parallel configuration). New cells installed with the same nominal voltage-(201.6v) wired to the stock BMS....

    So with that, any further commentary on the ECU/BMS potentially throwing codes with 5x larger capacity cells?

    Again, only concern is the SOC algorithm (or something else) being triggered by more AH batteries. Voltage and everything else is the same.

    The theory is that if everything goes well, the stock ECU/BMS has no clue there is a custom battery because the system reads stock voltage numbers and when minimum SOC is triggered it simply takes 5x larger to charge. More AH cells means more time to reach Maximum SOC.

    Will TIME TO CHARGE from minimum SOC to maximum SOC throw a code in the algorithm because now its taking 5x longer. Im sure a Toyota tech would know.
     
    #8 Edrive, Feb 10, 2025
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2025
  9. Edrive

    Edrive New Member

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    ^ ".... when minimum SOC is triggered it simply takes 5x *LONGER* to charge".... not larger.