Is it worth saving? P0A0F code!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Metalmedic, Jan 29, 2025.

  1. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The hv battery is not too low to turn it over if the engine is "thumping and clanking". The battery is on life support and has been for months.

    But it's now just part of a repair vs junk decision because of this.

    IMG_7349.jpeg
    Sorry but that is a blown engine. Odds are high the aluminum head and block are warped significantly allowing this oil and coolant milkshake to run wild throughout the engine.

    Most likely there is a bent connecting rod or worse.

    I would not even buy a gasket set before you teardown this thing. You won't need gaskets on the replacement engine should you go that route.
     
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  2. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    Well i definitely hope that’s not the case. I have total faith in the battery since the modules were all recently replaced with gen 4 modules from a 2018 with 60k miles. Battery state of health excellent. I’m sure it depended on the level of the battery at the time of the several failed start attempts? I also backed up down a long driveway prior to the start attempts, but I wasn’t looking at or concerned with the battery SOC.

    oil was changed 2 weeks ago and looked totally normal. The coolant level has required topping off at all, and even now the reservoir is low but not empty. I don’t believe this has been going on for a long period of time but rather a sudden extreme event, at least that’s what I hope. Hopefully I’ll have time to pull the head in the next day or two, but at at this time it turns freely by hand.

    Unfortunately I’ve already ordered a bunch of parts so if they aren’t needed I guess I’ll have a Prius parts garage sale!
     
  3. MAX2

    MAX2 Active Member

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    You don't need an engine to reverse.
    You may have a great high-voltage battery, but a really bad engine.
    Don't try to start it. Take the engine apart first and assess the extent of the disaster.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Has the car set a P3000-389 code and refused to even try to crank? Or is "the battery is too low" a judgment you are making for it?
     
  5. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    I think the only code was the P0A0F-238 engine failed to start. I can’t recall exactly what happened at the point where the engine wouldn’t start, I just realized that the battery level was at 20% and knew that the several start attempts on a not fully charged battery was the cause. I do remember seeing the “maintenance mode” indication on the screen.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The message of the P0A0F-238 was that the engine mechanically couldn't be cranked. That's a different issue, completely unsurprising when the cylinder is filled with liquid.

    It now remains to be determined whether the cylinder full of liquid was the only reason the engine mechanically couldn't be cranked, or something mechanically also broke at the transmission input. If you are now able to easily crank the engine by hand with the coolant escaping through the spark plug hole, then a quick cranking test by the car will give the answer to this question.

    In a car with a manual transmission there'd be easier ways. You could just put the tranny in gear with the wheels on the ground and confirm that you can't turn the engine by hand anymore (or the car moves when you do). That would prove the input shaft is still intact. But the way a Prius transmission is built, it will only freewheel in any test like that. The only ways to check the input shaft are to let the car try to crank, or to take the transmission off and look.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Exactly. That is what happens when we are talking about the engine and hydrolock.

    You might be the first if the transaxle literally broke. A few have damaged the spring loaded damper attached to the flywheel (no transaxle removal required).

    A few have changed a functioning transaxle due to bearing noise. Some of these show metal in the transaxle oil.

    A very few have had winding shorts in the transaxle which coded as a high voltage hybrid drive problem but did not lock up the transaxle.
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    We've got pictures on PriusChat of snapped input shafts. Wouldn't be the first.

    If the torque damper coil springs get beaten to smithereens first, then the impulse torques delivered to the input shaft become really high.

    But the code could also simply mean that the engine could not be cranked and the ECU gave up, and the transmission is undamaged. That would be nice to find out.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    If you want to upload videos you need to upload them to YouTube first (after registering there), then provide a link here.
     
  10. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I sort of like posting 'watch' URLs instead of 'shorts' URLs ... when it's a 'shorts' URL, I get fewer controls on the player like for slowing down or reviewing.

     
  12. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I'll post a link to GasketMasters Gen 3 head gasket disassembly/reassembly youtube if you don't have it bookmarked already.

    Caution : Especially when diving in as a newbie.

    Here are some links with some tips for DIY grid charger builds. keep in mind you'll need 4 MeanWell APC-35-350 Constant Current Power supplies wired in series for a Prius pack - instead of the 2 wired in series, like in the videos for the Honda NiMH packs that are rated at a lower voltage. I've seen the MeanWell APC-35-350 model this morning as low as $14 a piece on the bay and $8 each on ali.
    Build Hybrid Battery Maintenance Gear For Under $100 | PriusChat
    and Peters youtube channel showing the setup again this time for the small honda crz pack.


    Also keep in mind that not all LED supplies function the same So you can't always rely on their basic spec sheets to tell you exactly how they're gonna behave. You want to use exact or VERY similar devices to ones that have been tested and work for what you are going to be using them for.
     
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  13. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    Ugh, finally had some time to get back into this mess. I wanted to follow chapmans advice and see if the ICE would try to start without having to deal with the coolant compressed in the cylinder. Unfortunately I don’t believe it will even try to start with the HV battery at 20%? If anyone has the answer to the minimum SOC to start, I’d love to know. Also after attempting another start, now in addition to P0A0F I have the U0100 code! Would having the engine wiring harness mostly unplugged cause this?
     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I don't know what the minimum state of charge is, but if you have P3000-389 you've reached it, and if you don't, you haven't.

    U0100 is a failure to communicate with the ECM, which is in the engine compartment in gen 3, with both the engine harness and the engine room main harness connecting to it. You might have things a little too disconnected.
     
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  15. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    I followed instructions to put it into maintenance mode and it will display “maintenance mode” for a few seconds before the check hybrid system message appears? What a quandary this is! I can go ahead and remove the head and check all the piston heights and if good, put everything back together. Then I’m gonna have to deal with the low battery and still may find the transmission is jacked up! What a mess. If I could take the transmission out of the equation I would be more confident about pushing forward. Now a new code pops up..,,.
     
  16. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    If you remove the coils and plugs you can use a long screw driver or long stick….
    down the spark plug hole and measure the height of each piston… without removing the head..

     
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  17. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    That is an awesome idea!!! Thanks so much!
     
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  18. Metalmedic

    Metalmedic New Member

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    As Dogman suggested, I tried the crude but genius, connecting Rod condition, measuring system! I think everything looks good? Hitting top dead center on all cylinders, they were all very close to identical. There’s a fine line between the top and starting the down stroke! I posted pictures, let me know what you think. The cylinder I was most worried about, the one that was full of coolant, might have been a hair lower but I’m probably being paranoid.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    This one does look suspicious but you can measure again when the head is off.

    IMG_7367.jpeg

    I would mark the dowel's rotation to ensure the same mark is used.
     
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  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Google "depth gauge micrometer" for the bees-knees tool for this.
     
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