Rough startup when cold, P0300-P0303 codes

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by LazuliNyx, Jan 18, 2025 at 11:29 AM.

  1. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    During startup, my engine is misfiring, and it's getting worse, up to a minute last night and it through P0300, 301, 302, and 303, the misfire code. When I press the brake pedal, the roughness settles down a little, and when I life my foot off the brake, it gets rougher. If this were an older car, I'd look for a vacuum issue, but iirc, the brake booster is electric and not vacuum powered. I know the ignition system is one of the first candidates to check, but based on the behavior with the brake booster, does anyone have any recommendations on what systems to check first?

    Edit to add, since know head gasket is something I need to look into, possibly with a borescope:
    1. Does a failing head gasket usually affect 3 cylinders? Everything I've read up to now suggests in starts in cylinder 1 and spreads to 2.
    2. No observed coolant loss, been watching for over two months. Would it be like this during early hg failure? Would a borescope pick it up?
    3. I've read it's usually a problem that shows up as roughness when you've let the car sit overnight. This happens after the car has cooled for an hour or so, which doesn't seem like enough time for the coolant to fill the cylinder and affect ignition and compression.

    I'd like to check everything I can before taking it to someone with a scope. Thanks
     
    #1 LazuliNyx, Jan 18, 2025 at 11:29 AM
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2025 at 11:57 AM
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Head gasket with a borescope.
     
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  3. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    Considering it. How do I find someone to take it to with a scope? I also have a few things I'm wondering:
    1. Does a failing head gasket usually affect 3 cylinders? Everything I've read up to now suggests in starts in cylinder 1 and spreads to 2.
    2. No observed coolant loss, been watching for over two months. Would it be like this during early hg failure? Would a borescope pick it up?
    3. I've read it's usually a problem that shows up as roughness when you've let the car sit overnight. This happens after the car has cooled for an hour or so, which doesn't seem like enough time for the coolant to fill the cylinder and affect ignition and compression.

    Asking these questions because I'd like to check everything I can and then take it to someone with a borescope. If it's the hg, I'll try to replace it myself, because that's a lot to spend. Thank you.
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    What's the miles and how long have you had it?
     
  5. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    170+ and 7 years.
     
  6. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    Hmm, saw a borescope on clearance at Advance auto so I went ahead and bought it. Going to pick it up and then look in my cylinders.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    You can spend a lot of money and time replacing ignition, injector and egr parts. A lot of people do this and some make things worse with aftermarket or counterfeit parts. If this problem was not so common it would not be suggested to do a borescope first. A Toyota dealer would confirm for a $200 diagnostic fee. A lot of good independents are fooled by this and cost customers money with the parts cannon. It is better to find an independent with specific gen3 head gasket experience.

    1. Does a failing head gasket usually affect 3 cylinders? Everything I've read up to now suggests in starts in cylinder 1 and spreads to 2.

    The ecu is confused by the severe result of a coolant initiated misfire. It is common.

    2. No observed coolant loss, been watching for over two months. Would it be like this during early hg failure? Would a borescope pick it up?

    It uses very little coolant at first and combustion gases tend to create gas pockets and. condensation in the coolant. Also common.

    A quality dual view borescope will see "steam cleaned" pistons since it has been ongoing. With the proper cold engine setup a mechanic can pressurize the coolant and can often see drops in the cylinder.

    3. I've read it's usually a problem that shows up as roughness when you've let the car sit overnight. This happens after the car has cooled for an hour or so, which doesn't seem like enough time for the coolant to fill the cylinder and affect ignition and compression.

    It does not fill the cylinder. Just a few drops. Your frequency is unfortunate and generally indicates a more advanced fail. The next step is stumbling when moving away from stop lights. By then coolant loss becomes obvious. Final stage is white smoke when rev'ing the engine. Worst case is "filling the cylinder", bent rod, followed by a hole in the block.

    Borescope test
    Car Care Nut HG Borescope at 6:60
     
    #7 rjparker, Jan 18, 2025 at 12:35 PM
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2025 at 12:42 PM
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  8. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    Thank you for that answer. I'm going to check the gasket for sure, and I guess look into what else could be happening if it comes back ok. It's a shame toyota didn't do a replacement program for the head gasket.
     
  9. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    Update: Got ahold of a simple scope, but just pulling the plugs, I saw no 2 cylinder's had a white tip. Additionally, looked like there was steam or vapor in cylinder 1. None of the pistons looked clean, but I guess it would with time. I know what I'm doing this weekend, leaving car as is until the parts get in and I replace the head gasket. Wish me luck. First time, but I've been working on cars since I was a teen. Thanks everyone
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Before you get too deep, take measurements to make certain you haven't already bent a connecting rod.

    That will happen after too many "rough starts" and has real consequences.
     
  11. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    That makes sense. Will do that tomorrow before I take anything apart. I found this bit of advice and wonder if you think this is a good method, it makes sense since the pistons are paired 1-4 2-3 at the same depth if I understand correctly.
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I understand the Prius 1.8L crank to be pinned at 180° with no variation.

    I'm not experienced enough to know for certain, but I have a theory that this type of failure is relatively unique to the Prius.

    Specifically, most gasoline engine starters aren't powerful enough to overcome the degree of hydrolocking that is occurring in Prius engines with active head gasket leaks. Thus, they just don't start and go to the garage for HG diagnosis before a connecting rod is ever threatened, let alone bent.

    But because the Prius has the massive torque of two large electric motors and a very big battery dropping the bass so to speak, they are able to work more like a high speed metal press than an engine starter. This results in unexpectedly bent connecting rods which run funny until they burn the bottom-end bearing and blow the engine completely.

    I hope yours hasn't gone that far and I wish you luck with the situation.
     
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  13. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    i'm gonna have hope that mine isn't too far gone. the rattling is recent, and I haven't lost much coolant, so much that I haven't noticed any loss over several months. That makes sense about the MGs, although I thought only MG1 was used to start the engine.
     
  14. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    Oh, I will add that my car is in the garage, not moving anywhere until the parts come in and I finish the job.
     
  15. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    I checked the depth. Cyls 1 and 4 are at equal height, as are 2 and 3. Should be safe to proceed with the HG repair as soon as the parts come in, including new bolts. I am also planning to replace timing chain, water pump, and thermostat. Coincidentally, since I'd been researching Gen 3 issues, I already had a pump and thermostat I just got from Amayama because I was going to change it pre-emptively. I don't think my current pump has any issues, cooling looked perfect when I monitored the OBD2 port while driving. I also got new spark plugs, as the old ones have at least 50 K miles on them. EGR valve was changed a couple months ago, it had the worn groove issue. I've also installed an oil catch can. I was preparing for the likelihood of gasket failure, while also trying to do what I could to stave it off or prevented, unfortunately I learned about much of this too late, at 170 K miles, instead of when I got the car at 120 K.

    Is there any maintenance I should do while the engine's gonna be opened up? I'm trying to make this car last as long as I can.
    Thanks everyone who's commented. Wish me luck doing the HG job starting tomorrow or Tuesday.
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Witness Leader

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    Maybe oil catch can.

    Ah, never mind, you've done that. Anyway, good luck. There's a couple of head gasket related links in my signature, and last link is the full engine section of repair manual (on a phone turn it landscape to see signatures).

    Note: the proper tool for the head bolts is a 10 mm double-hex bit, not the triple square some are using. The correct one is readily available on Amazon.

    Also, Gasket Masters are using Permatex Ultra Black for form-in-place gasket, which apparently has a much longer cure time the the Toyota spec, likely easier to use for DIY. Suppose to cure for 24 hours before oil fill or running the engine.
     
    #16 Mendel Leisk, Jan 19, 2025 at 12:03 PM
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2025 at 12:09 PM
  17. LazuliNyx

    LazuliNyx New Member

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    That's good to know about the ultra black. I'll let it sit 24 hours. Does the Permatex The Right Stuff work on the head or should i stick to ultra black? That requires less time to cure. I ordered the proper double hex bit, it's hard to find anywhere expedient, so I had to pay for expedited shipping to get it in a reasonable time to get my car running again.