P0A0F and P3193: doesn't run in Northern Virginia

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Stuart M Whitaker, Jan 9, 2025 at 1:19 PM.

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  1. Stuart M Whitaker

    Stuart M Whitaker Junior Member

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    2010 Prius
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    The saga began after the car was in for routine service at 255k miles--the shop, Integrity Tire and Auto, which only does oil changes for me, advised me there was a check light. The check light wasn't on when I dropped it off. I found these codes using Bluedriver:
    -P3190 poor engine power

    -p0a80 replace hybrid/ev battery pack
    -p0a0f engine failed to start
    -p3000 battery control system

    Because the engine wasn't turning on at all, soon the car stopped moving completely. I've had hv batteries fail before so the fact that the hv battery was bad shouldn't explain the fact that the engine didn't start.

    I had the car towed to Koons Tysons Toyota. Koons who wanted to replace the hv battery for $5422 and install new plugs $428 but offered no promise that the car would run (Koons didn't charge me!). I told them I didn't think the plugs had caused the engine to suddenly stop working so I had it towed to my lot where I had Greentec replace the battery (this was a disappointing experience but that's another story).

    After the hv replacement Bluedriver reported:
    -P3193 Fuel Run Out
    -P0A0F Engine Failed to Start

    I sent the BlueDriver report to a local Valvoline Express Care who thought the ecm is bad--they didn't want to work on the car because it is a hybrid.

    I sent the BlueDriver report to Smokeys, a local independent shop who says they can work on anything though they don't specialize in Prii, so I had it towed to there (my tow operator loves me). Smokeys just told me they can't solve the problem--they said the fuel pump initially pumps but suddenly stops, they don't know why, they don't find any sensor issues, and have given up.

    Any suggestions or referrals would be welcome.
     
    #1 Stuart M Whitaker, Jan 9, 2025 at 1:19 PM
  2. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    Is there gas in the car? Never mind the what the gauge says, that could be the part that has failed.

    In what way does the fuel pump "pump"? Did they unhook a line just before the fuel injectors and watch gas come out, or did they just listen to the pump? If the latter, I suppose it is possible that there is a blockage in the line and the pump senses the back pressure and turns off.

    Unfortunately if the fuel pump is actually bad the entire tank needs to be replaced.
     
    #2 pasadena_commut, Jan 9, 2025 at 1:58 PM
  3. Stuart M Whitaker

    Stuart M Whitaker Junior Member

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    Thanks for the thought. I just called and asked Smokeys and they said they did see gas coming out of the fuel line. Also, before I had it towed the engine repeatedly turned on momentarily until the 12v battery ran out.
     
    #3 Stuart M Whitaker, Jan 9, 2025 at 4:37 PM
  4. pasadena_commut

    pasadena_commut Senior Member

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    So fuel line not blocked.

    How much gas is in the tank? Some cars have been reported to "think" they are low on fuel (because fuel sensor busted) and then they shut off. Here is a video of one like that:



    Unfortunately, again, unless there is a problem with the wiring going to/from the gas tank, if that is what is broken, the solution is a new gas tank.
     
    #4 pasadena_commut, Jan 9, 2025 at 5:43 PM
  5. Hayslayer

    Hayslayer Junior Member

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    There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread. The 12v battery only powers the electronics and electric motors and pumps on the car. The engine is "rotated to start" by the HV battery powering the transaxle to spin the engine. An engine failing to start (and tried over and over) will eventually drain the HV battery to the point it thinks it needs to be replaced, likely why you got the P0A80 code. If the 12v battery died or was disconnected, the ECM will go to factory default settings, which also includes throttle body info, etc. Sometimes, the engine has made enough tuning adjustments over the years, that the default settings are no longer accurate for the actual condition of the engine components and will not start the car. Typically, cleaning the throttle body and MAF sensor so they are as close as possible to new condition will help the parameters match better and the car will start. Been there, experienced it, and done it a couple times.

    -P3190 poor engine power

    -p0a80 replace hybrid/ev battery pack
    -p0a0f engine failed to start
    -p3000 battery control system

    Because the engine wasn't turning on at all, soon the car stopped moving completely. I've had hv batteries fail before so the fact that the hv battery was bad shouldn't explain the fact that the engine didn't start.

    Yeah, you drained the hell out of the HV battery trying to drive it without the engine. You probably don't want to do that again. So your problem most likely started with the engine failing to start. Then the HV battery was drained by trying over and over to start it, and then driving on it for the kill shot. Now, HV batteries can be recharged, but because no one understood what happened, you had it replaced. Now you're going to do the same thing again, and drain your replacement HV battery. You need to solve the reason for the no start. It's not an uncommon thing. Could even be due to significant overfilling of the oil. You may want to also check that since you just had it changed, but the situation in the first paragraph is highly possible. Fuel pump failures are pretty rare.
     
    #5 Hayslayer, Jan 9, 2025 at 6:25 PM
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2025 at 6:32 PM
  6. Stuart M Whitaker

    Stuart M Whitaker Junior Member

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    Yes, start was attempted over and over by Integrity, Koons, and by me. Integrity said there was low power immediately after servicing the vehicle--I'll have to check oil level. I have no reason to think the 12v died or was disconnected. Smokeys charged the 12v after it had been run down and confidently told me it was fixed. They also noted parenthetically that that there wasn't a lot of power but attributed that to the number of miles on the car--what I think neither they nor I realized was that the lack of power was due to the fact that the engine wasn't turning on. I get the point that the hv battery may not have needed to be replaced--I'll try to avoid this a second time though I have a 48 month warranty on the replacement hv battery. I'll have to check on the oil and gas levels. Thanks!
     
    #6 Stuart M Whitaker, Jan 9, 2025 at 7:24 PM
  7. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    #7 Aegean, Jan 9, 2025 at 7:40 PM
    wjtracy and Brian1954 like this.
  8. Stuart M Whitaker

    Stuart M Whitaker Junior Member

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    Thank you very much! I know Sal can replace Prius engines because he did that for me three years ago so I'll have to talk to him about this problem--thanks for the reminder!
     
    #8 Stuart M Whitaker, Jan 9, 2025 at 8:02 PM
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I did not know about Sal...in my backyard. Wonder if he was there in 2020 could have maybe rescued my 2006 Prius
     
    #9 wjtracy, Jan 9, 2025 at 10:32 PM
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