dr prius lithuim modules problems

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by mikweb73, Jun 14, 2023.

  1. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,471
    362
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    or highly opinionated with a dash of pretentiousness all swirled up into a ball of lacking courage to try something new for fear of the unknown.
     
  2. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    638
    341
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    The Prius charging voltage control has variables built that the NiMh chemistry can handle, other chemistries would require serious over voltage capacity to handle. I had designed this factor into the LTO 50Ah battery I was building that sadly never survived the workshop fire.
    As a replacement for the original battery to fit in the original position, besides writing a different charging profile and adding battery thermal control using reverse cycle HVAC to stabilise the cell temp, it would be an uphill battle with an ever diminishing market to make it financially viable, but a battery pack that seriously increased the EV only driving range, suitable for both the Gen 2 and Gen 3 and plug in capable, would have a great market potential, especially as an ICE delete option .....

    T1 Terry
     
  3. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    638
    341
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    This is a tad generic, Winston LYP http://winston-battery.ru/datasheet/WB-LYP100AHA-A.pdf can handle -45*C to 85*C, if you leave your vehicle out in weather worse than that, don't expect it to function past either of these extremes.
    The problem is, they won't fit where the original NiMh battery fitted, it would require between 74 and 76 cells to handle the extremes of the regen voltage if the charging regime wasn't rewritten .....

    The CATL hybrid battery is built to function within extreme charge rates, loads and thermal parameters, but even it requires a thermal management system. These batteries use a combination of LFP and sodium ion cells in parallel to give a long range and the best of both worlds regarding fast recharging and a good cycle life .... but again, they won't fit where the original battery lived .....

    T1 Terry
     
  4. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,471
    362
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    impossible... you cant think of a PHEV and its batteries in the same thought as a non PHEV and its batteries. apples to oranges really, but... I do like your think outside the box energy. My PHEV will soon have ~50kWh of battery capacity, if we put the same in a non PHEV the system wouldnt be able to know what to do with all that junk in the trunk, especially without the extra ECU that the PHEV has(my model at least, starting with the Prius Prime, they integrated that 3rd ECU into the overall system.
     
  5. Hayslayer

    Hayslayer Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2024
    46
    22
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    This is coming from the guy who can't figure out why he's getting 11 mpg in a Prius?

    How's your courage working out? Get it figured out yet?
     
  6. mikweb73

    mikweb73 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2023
    34
    5
    0
    Location:
    oregon
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    It all seems to be a massive bunch of tradeoffs. The more equipment you put in there to regulate and protect the batteries, the more expense and weight and inefficiency of the electrical cycle there is. You change chemistry. You have to deal with all the differences with the onboard previous computer and its electronics and system and what it's designed to do. Then you have to figure out some way to. Accommodate all that, which means more equipment or replacing the computer or something. Increasing expense and so forth. Companies trying to give you a. Drop in battery pack solution. Can't do all that unless they're going to do it in the 10s of thousands or more units. It's just not financially advantageous. So they're just gonna try and slap Cells into a pack and call it good if they can , With rudimentary protections for the cells and hope they last, which is what is happening. Or do it yourselfers Can do more , Have a much bigger pack , make Custom enclosures to protect the batteries completely , Control the environment, temperature and so forth of the battery pack so you can make other chemistries function well enough and accept the amount of charge rate necessary and have the capacity and everything else so that , Regardless of the chemistry, it can function as the computer expects more or less, and as it's system demands. However, the tradeoffs are loss of cargo space, all the extra work and money, and. Extra weight. Everything is a tradeoff in one way or another. There is no one real clear winner. To get better performance or better gas mileage. Or something really cheap and inexpensive. You have to pick your end goals. And. Then figure out what. Accomplishes that end goal with acceptable tradeoffs. If you just want a cheap drop in replacement for your dead pack. Probably the refurbished OEMs every two to four years is gonna work for you. or oem new cells. Sucks but. Economically. Probably your best option. Until somebody. Figures out. Cheap enough cells that perform correctly enough that fit into the original case and can work with the original computer and electrical charge and discharge profile within the temperature range. It would be great if somebody could figure out how to reprogram the damn Toyota computers then that would open up a lot of options for less problematic battery replacement options and you can totally customize your Prius get rid of traction control and a bunch of other stuff and slim line some things and change the displays so they could actually display meaningful information about your car's functions instead of some pictographic crap that isn't even really accurate or representative of what's going on .
    Also instead of designing drop in replacements for each version of the cars from each of the manufacturers a better way to do it if somebody was actually going to make some money at it is make a modularized battery pack that you could basically put in a bunch of different cases and the cases could be made for each car and not have to be the same size and have a universal control that can be programmed to interface with any of the computers and function so you just basically have some wires you connect to it and that's it possibly even easier to install than the original packs in any of the cars so that way you have mass production of one set of modules that can be arranged in any way to make up a larger pack with a aftermarket computer controlling it all programmable to interface with any of the automobiles that would be placed into custom cases made for each model is much cheaper than a total pack made for each model some of the companies of the Chinese cell packs are kind of doing this making sticks of three or 4 round cells and then figuring out ways to adapt them to fit in the Honda hybrids as well as the Toyota hybrids which is what my pack is made of right now . because you have the cost efficiency of greater numbers of mass production and therefore profit and incentive to do this and hopefully to get it right However I think one of the main things is figuring out ways not having to stick with the original case and cooling systems and so forth and being able to fit in better options with that in a modular way.
     
  7. mikweb73

    mikweb73 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2023
    34
    5
    0
    Location:
    oregon
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Screenshot_20241223_155219_Dr Prius.jpg Screenshot_20241223_141652_Dr Prius.jpg
    On an interesting side note those cheap Chinese round cells which are metal hydrides , supposed to be just like the original OEM battery blades I don't know what the dr Prius app is set for. it might be set for the previous pack of lithiums that's why it's in red maybe or maybe that's normal for them hydrides but they seem to be taking the full charge like an oem pack . I just don't know if it is going to damage the cells or not so far the temperatures have not gotten over a 105 degrees I think which is better than the past although it is cold out. the real test will be this summer for heat. I've seen the pack voltage spike up to almost 280 and interestingly the number 10 block is the same one that was not performing correctly on the last pack (lithium) . this one is a totally new enclosure and new computer and guts with brand new leads I saw them and everything else new inside the pack or different as the computers etc are refurbished oem etc, and the same damn number 10 is very anomalous I don't know if it's something in the connections of how the design of the pack is or what , but it seems to be the one that is having a problem again although not outside of Speck apparently only under extreme charge or discharge is it out of range too much but worrisome nonetheless wonder why it occurs.
    So far the pack performs really good I get full power acceleration and full regen braking up to like 110 amps so far I've seen it spiked to And it barely changes the state of charge . the pack is supposed to have greater capacity than OEM and it seems that may be the case . however I've not had an original OEM pack that was new so i do not know how they performed new to be able to judge that claim.
     
  8. mikweb73

    mikweb73 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2023
    34
    5
    0
    Location:
    oregon
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    What would be really nice would be some sort of do-it-yourself kit car project that's open sourced that either allows integration of commercially available parts either used from car lines that are accessible all over the world such as like say Prius and Toyota parts Honda parts and so forth which are cheap and plentiful and some sort of body designs and frame and so forth and so you could integrate any electric motor maybe generators of some kind range extenders 48 volts like golf carts whatever and put it together and it actually be road legal and fairly safe it would be a massive coordination project over the Internet so that all sorts of used and new parts and plans for possibly printable ones , say abs or something is actually durable and useful printed part that won't fall apart and somebody could build say battery packs that will work with the computer that runs the car and so forth then people could build modular cars from modularized parts basically very cheaply tailored to their specific situation whether you live out in the country and need something that is tougher let's say or you could tear apart say a Subaru it has all wheel drive that is cheap you can pick up it has a dead engine or whatever add some universal components and make a really good all wheel drive car that's either battery powered or hybrid or a little one seater trike for big city commutes , lots of possibilities but again it'll take some sort of Internet organization to do it be a lot of work coordinating all that but an open source car computer would be great help , possibly one already on the market that people can reprogram easily.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    25,076
    16,343
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Meanwhile, the US DOT continues to plod along toward maybe one day updating the headlight regs so it won't be illegal to put LEDs in
     
  10. mikweb73

    mikweb73 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2023
    34
    5
    0
    Location:
    oregon
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
  11. mikweb73

    mikweb73 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2023
    34
    5
    0
    Location:
    oregon
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Governments are a ridiculous problem in an unto it themselves when you need them to solve a problem they seem to just make it worse they get in the way as much or more than they help sometimes they do some really wonderful things or at least it appears so at first and they are needed,they do provide some needed things . the problem is is there is usually some detrimental side effect or end result that may make the good thing that they provide at first not worth the problems they cause .
     
  12. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2015
    638
    341
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    The two are very different, capacity = range after all.
    The weight distribution if the ICE is removed and a battery added to fill in the gap v a large capacity hybrid battery taking up a lot of the boot space also makes a big difference.
    The chemistry used for the BEV conversion dictates how fast it can be recharged.

    There has been a lot of work done on the Open Inverter Forum in regards to using the Prius inverter and MG1 and MG2 as drive motors Toyota Prius™ Gen2 inverter PCB only - community edition
    so it is possible to turn a hybrid Gen 2 or Gen 3 into a pure electric drive vehicle.

    T1 Terry
     
  13. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2020
    1,471
    362
    3
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    hahaha, I love it when I hear people try to belittle or make fun of me when I might not be able to figure something out right away. In my mind it makes me think that maybe those who speak to others this way were tremendously mentally abused growing up, I say that because any human without severe trauma wouldn't make fun of someone for stumbling while they are learning something new. On the flip side, I know I've impacted a community when folks are alllll over what I post. hahahahah you are making me blush!

    I was taught, if at first you don't succeed, try again and that no one in this world is perfect. so go one with your bad pretentious self but I'll say this... when you see what I've accomplished with a Prius I won't hold your words against me when you want some of wheat I've got.

    yeah naaahhh.. I want the PHEV effect just with a large capacity battery!

    food for thought, the first EV Rav4 had a 27.4kWh battery which was the size of the entire floor of the vehicle. the bZ4x has a ~71kWh battery and altho its also the entire floor... physically the bZ4x battery is smaller.