As of today with current PG&E electricity charge rates, it makes no sense to drive on all electric range. With fuel ranging from $4.15 to all the way upto $6.60 a gallon on regular, it still makes more economical sense to drive on gasoline than to run my electric battery. I have a 2017 Prime. I ran the numbers against a 2024 Prius averaging 57 MPG vs. Prime of 54 MPG. My PGE electricity costs $0.42 kwh after the 25% additional charge from my city. But I am not including the climate credit that my city provides back. I am on an EV2-A plan and charge off peak at 12 am to 3 pm. If I touch the part peak or peak hours it is $0.62 to $0.65 kwh after the additional 21% to 24% fees from my city. What do you guys do? Are you still charging? I am not knocking the vehicle. But I am glad that I have a PHEV and the option to refuel instead of charge. Here are the current PG&E rate tariffs. https://www.pge.com/assets/pge/docs/account/rate-plans/residential-electric-rate-plan-pricing.pdf I am on EV2-A but our city will tack onto the off peak, part peak, and the peak rates by 21 to 25% additional increase. Then they rebate us back a credit dollar amount. But I cannot break that credit down to a usable cent per kwh. The fuel calculator that I use. Save Money
My numbers indicated $0.38 KwH as breakeven @ $4/gal - avg 4 miles a KwH, but I'm using 50 mpg instead of the 54 mpg on the MSRP sticker. It just makes the calculations easier and it compensates for the additional KwH lost during charging. It's not a direct 1:1 when your charging - some is lost during the process. I'm on SMUD, so only getting charged $0.15 KwH, for now. I feel sorry for the SF BEV people, because they're getting less than 4 miles per KwH and a larger battery to recharge.
How are you guys doing your calculations? On the fueleconomy.gov website, if I set 100% city driving and 100% vehicle B driving on electricity alone, I get a break even at $0.26 cents per kwh to $4.00 a gallon of regular. The vehicle I pick are Vehicle A - 2024 Pirus and Vehicle B - 2024 Prius Prime. I am redoing the math and considering switching away from an EV2-A charge plan and just not charging my Prime. Gasoline is at $4.15 a gallon at the costco. I am at a loss in California.....
Sorry, I mistyped - $0.32 KwH is breakeven for me @ $4/gal, 4 miles/KwH You need to look at your miles per KwH and take an average (one of your display options). I'm around 4 miles per KwH - higher in summer and slightly lower during winter. Using your Prime and assuming the same 4 miles per KwH; some people on here are claiming up to 8 miles per KwH. $4.15/gal divided by 54 miles/gal = $0.07685/mile $0.07685/mile times 4 mile/KwH = $0.3074/KwH would be break even for you @ $4.15/gal, if your getting 54 miles/gal. assuming your high of $6.60/gal would put you at $0.49/KwH break even of using gas vs EV
The truth is owning an electric car requires having your own solar panels or windmill and powerwall if you want to utilize it in an affordable way. And with the current price of EVs you'd be foolish to think the corporate con-artists are not going to rob you of every penny if you don't build your EV car purchase on a solid foundation that's immune to corporate criminal exploitation. By the way, you install enough solar or wind and the power company criminals pay you rather than charging you. And to those who read this and say, "That's too hard," try being a newborn entering this world of no limits to greed and corruption and your future self wondering if you'll still have air to breathe when you're 80 years old?
Everything is off the charts.... I don't even know how the Tesla bros can justify a $0.43 cents per kwh at 12 am to 4am time.... that is their rate. https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/SanBrunoCAsupercharger2 Its even higher during peak demand. A camry hybrid at 5 dollars a gallon starts to make more sense than the EV model 3. I am sure it can even pencil in a Rav4 Hybrid to work. I know our Prius are not luxury and are more practical than modern. But how does California expect to shift to EVs if the electricity is so expensive? Supercharger at peak time is $0.74 per kwh....
The issue is two folds. Tesla bros is counting on buyers to be too lazy and/or dumb to make the calculations themselves. They were a symbol of wealth when they were over $100K a piece. PG&E has deferred maintenance for multiple decades, got caught doing so, and has multiple class action lawsuits against them. Some class action lawsuits settled, unfortunately the only way for PG&E to pay out judgements is to raise rates on their customers. Ergo your escalating energy rates. The PUC can't deny rate increases when PG&E has a court order in-hand. This is also why Ca has the highest tax rate on fossil fuels, to try to level the playing field between BEV vs ICE.
Most Tesla owners aren't exclusively charging at Super chargers. Even the long range AWD Model 3 is more efficient than the new Prius Prime. Most Teslas will end up paying less under the same plans.
I know an early adopter that spent 15K replacing the battery pack on his a couple of years ago. I don't believe he's broken even yet on that purchase, since the initial purchase price was north of $100K. Common sense would indicate that he would be close, if it wasn't for that $15K expense.
I guess I should just keep quiet about my $0.14/kwh rate in Roseville, CA, with our municipal electric utility. This is the rate after various surcharges have been factored in. As a municipal utility, they are supposed to break even, and they use the same fuels that PG&E uses to generate the electricity, so that give you an idea what kind of profits companies like PG&E are making.
Their profit margins are minimal and regulated by the PUC. The margins covers shareholders payout, maintenance, and the growing court settlements bills from all that deferred maintenance. Past management paid-out enormous bonuses to themselves for coming in under budget. That resulted in the San Bruno natural gas pipeline explosion in a residential neighborhood. Power lines breaking loose during high winds. Now energy companies trying to convince law makers to outlaw natural gas appliances - even though gas is cheaper and more efficient than electricity in some applications. Taking away options from consumers, basically forces a monopoly, so that consumers no longer has a choice. Market forces no longer work - total opposite of capitalism and removing competition from the field. IMHO....
How did you get out of PGE territory? Our PGE rate is high straight for the transmission*** alone. Our municipal electric generation*** rate is similar to yours. I was adding both of them up to equal the final number.
Turlock, Roseville, and SMUD has the lowest electricity rates in Ca. Whereas PG&E has the highest. followed by San Diego and So. Cal Edison.
Yes your math is correct. Assumptions are 50 mpg on ICE, your averaging 5 miles/KwH and gas is $4/gal. Your breakeven is $0.40 KwH. If your paying more than $0.40 KwH, then it's more economical to just drive gas and not waste your time charging. If your paying significantly less than $0.40 KwH, your saving more money, the more EV miles your clocking in on electricity. Of course the math changes as the price of gas goes up and down. I mainly use that number to determine if I should pay for a charge, if I'm conducting business at a location for several hours. Of course a FREE charge is a no-brainer....
Yes, they're only responsible for infrastructure within their respective city limits and buy power and/or own a dam in the Sierras. SMUD is more of a regional power provider. They tried expanding into Davis and Woodland about a decade back, but PG&E wouldn't allow them to take over their territory. The consumers were all for it, since it would've reduced their energy bill by 2/3. SMUD is a well run, not for profit utility, Whereas PG&E is a shareholder owned for profit, poorly managed utility. IMHO, both must answer to the toothless PUC.
Roseville has its own generation facilities, so transmission and purchase expense is not much of an issue. We are also connected to the regional power grid to deal with high usage situations, but that is the exception. As I understand it, PG&E no longer owns much generation capacity. They have their own transmission infrastructure, but they buy most of their electricity from other companies.
