Featured New study shows: EV batteries last much longer than expected

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Nov 24, 2024.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I have had practically zero capacity loss in my 8.79-kWh Panasonic NMC prismatic-cell 2021 Prius Prime Limited battery so far in four years and over 36,000 miles, still getting a BEV range of 40 miles on a full charge. I should state that I do baby my battery though—never charging it until I am ready to drive, driving gently, keeping it at no more than 70% SOC when the car is not driven, etc.

    This study confirms that even regular people see no more than about a 10% capacity loss in general.

    New study shows: EV batteries last much longer than expected—electrive.com
     
    #1 Gokhan, Nov 24, 2024
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    confirms what i have read from so many ev owners experience
     
    #2 bisco, Nov 24, 2024
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Biggest loss of capacity in most Lithium type batteries is from too much heat or too much charging. If you live in a place like Arizona it's going to be a problem sooner than later. Also if you have ADHD / OCD and you're constantly trying to charge your battery up as much as possible, that can create problems too, but usually the manufacture protects you from that, though that was a problem with Teslas a 1/2 dozen years ago.
     
    #3 PriusCamper, Nov 24, 2024
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Another data point:
    upload_2024-11-24_21-53-35.png

    Bob Wilson
     
    #4 bwilson4web, Nov 24, 2024
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Is that German? I have no idea what that chart says... I'm sure everyone else thinks the same. Posting a chart in a foreign language without a description of the point you're trying to make with that chart ain't gonna get you many likes. Do you speak the language in the chart?
     
    #5 PriusCamper, Nov 24, 2024
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  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Perhaps you might try Google translate and enter the text and seeing the equivalent in another language. I took a few minutes to look for source paper but didn't have much luck.

    Can you find the original report?

    The reason I ask is the news article suggests OBD ports were used to gather the data. But Teslas in North America lack an OBD port.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #6 bwilson4web, Nov 25, 2024
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  7. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I definitely would of bothered nobody and just used Google translate but you posted an image not text and no link...
     
    #7 PriusCamper, Nov 25, 2024
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    My battery is still at 100% SOH after four years. I would say I have had about 200 cycles so far. Babying your battery will keep it like a baby.
     
    #8 Gokhan, Nov 25, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  9. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I am not sure where the German came from, but in the origin link I provided, it is in English.

    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Gokhan, Nov 25, 2024
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Another data point:
    upload_2024-11-25_20-14-18.png

    This matches my expected battery degradation. It is built into the NMC chemistry and only affects the expected, 100% battery range.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Nov 25, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2024
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  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Not me and everybody.

    The “German” version says
    2019 Model 3
    85% after 225 km
    Which was the point.
     
    #11 rjparker, Nov 25, 2024
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  12. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Unless it's an early generation Nissan Leaf with the non-existent thermal management.
     
    #12 Isaac Zachary, Nov 26, 2024
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Upon reflection, my soon to be 6 year.old Model 3 is entering touring bike range, 200 miles or less. Yet no one thinks the less for those who drive on two wheels as long as their kidneys don't hurt. But such things are not for everyone ... just the old and soon forgotten.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #13 bwilson4web, Nov 26, 2024
  14. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    We should get data that separates LiFePO4 batteries from LiOn. I expect that the LiFeSo4 batteries last much longer.

    JeffD
     
    #14 jdenenberg, Nov 26, 2024
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2024
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Outside of China, LFP hasn't been available for long. Going to be less data on them in this study, and cars there are going to be in the low mile part of the chart.
     
    #15 Trollbait, Nov 26, 2024
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  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    LFP is a lithium-ion cell. It refers to the cathode active material, the other common materials being NMC and NCA. There is really no difference in the cell architecture in comparison to other types of lithium-ion cells.
     
    #16 Gokhan, Nov 26, 2024
  17. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    LFP gives two benefits:
    1. longer cycle life
    2. Less likely to go up in flames

    There is a negative factor, LFP has a slightly lower energy density

    I don't care about semantics, just that LFP is safer and handles more charging cycles.

    JeffD
     
    #17 jdenenberg, Nov 26, 2024
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  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    And typically cheaper, too, with the main disadvantage being the energy density.

    In any case, they are lithium-ion cells, with LFP only referring to a flavor of the cathode active material. Nevertheless, people often have the common misconception that LFP is not a lithium-ion cell. It is important to realize what LFP refers to when discussing technical performance characteristics—otherwise, we don’t even know what we are talking about to begin with, let alone speculate on complicated technical details.
     
    #18 Gokhan, Nov 26, 2024
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