Featured Toyota says California-led EV mandates are ‘impossible’ as states fall short of goal

It's intriguing to observe feathers getting ruffled as numbers of Ev's gets higher & higher worldwide ... quickly people feel the need to come to do the defense of ICE with other numbers. Even here where it's presumed efficiency and cleaner air is often of paramount importance. Kind of misses the point of showing growth in the industry. Doing so is not to hint the Gasser is dead.
sheesh

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Perspective and common sense can bring clarity to situations and help dampen foolish exuberance over current data.

Who has sold more vehicles Tesla or Ford's Model T? (Hint the right answer starts with M)

Tesla has done well in the past and hopefully might once again do well. They are an important American Company. They will need another 20 years under their belt before they are anything but a flash in the pan for the Automotive Manufacturing Industry.

Our forum here certainly has a radicalized off-center viewpoint but that doesn't mean that is the correct or only view of the Automotive Industry.
Most individuals would possess a much more tempered and moderate view of EV's, Gas Vehicles, Hybrids, PHEV's and the Automotive Industry as a whole.

 

Yes, this is true. We also live in a blame-game society. Everyone else is always to blame for the problems in this world. And placing the blame also include people who blame others of victimizing themselves.

I don't see this as an "Toyota didn't invest heavily in EVs so has sealed its downfall" situation. It's more like a game of chess, only with many players, each with his or her own prerogative.

There is a shift towards EVs. Is that shift really going to have us fully EV by 2030, 2040 or 2050? Some want it to. Others don't. Toyota isn't the only one. Even here in the USA you have presidents that come in and place nice little incentives to promote EVs, and even then there are companies that heavily invest in EV tech and still loose a lot of money doing it, and others, like Tesla and Chinese companies, that are doing well at it. Then you have another president come in who will likely kill off any of those incentives and place more tariffs.

How will this all play out? We don't know yet. Elon Musk hopes to benefit from the new USA president elect. But removing the federal EV tax incentive will likely cause fewer Teslas to be sold. Some have said that Musk is no longer interested in selling EVs in high volume and is more interested in developing and profiting from his self-driving technology.

Meanwhile, with EVs suddenly becoming $7,500 more expensive in the USA, this could help companies like Toyota for the near term. But on the other hand, high tariffs for goods from Mexico and Canada could hurt Toyota and many other car manufacturers that have plants in Mexico that they use to import parts and cars to the USA.

Also, there are a lot of car manufacturers, if not nearly all, that are suffering from an economy that is suddenly not doing so well. How long will this downturn last? Some companies, like Rivian, are losing billions per quarter. This isn't sustainable. Others, like Toyota, are just keeping their head above water right now.

I think it is very easy for one to take one EV company, like Tesla, and point and say "Aha! Obviously the answer to financial success is to build EVs! So Toyota and everyone else is failing due to not having EVs!" But it's just as easy to point to the many companies that have lost billions and billions of dollars to EV development and still don't have any clear date as to when those investments will start generating profits instead of losses and say, "EVs are a long way off, because unless you have a niche product or name like Tesla, then EV development is too risky."

The reality is we don't know yet. All I know is that cars are expensive, and I'll keep my eye open for an EV as my next car, but making that a reality does not seem affordable for me at the present time.

 

It would be interesting to know how many decades it took before major cities like Chicago, Philly New York etc .... before the last horsey was clumping down the major city's arteries.
I know by1913 there was quite a bit of cars in production, & I'm guessing by 1940's the majority of traffic was piston driven - tho still some remaining overlap. 3 decades?
If that transportation switch over trend holds for EV's, maybe another 2½ decades before gassers are a rarity?
Wow! I'd be in my 90s! ..... unless I get hit by an electric bus like the ones running around Park City that came precariously close to us during the Sundance Film Festival



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Ya, who knows. It wasn't just the existence of cars, automobiles had existed for quite some time. But it was the transition to cheaper manufacturing methods that brought the price down enough that average families could afford them.

Even then the car wasn't something within everyone's reach until the 1950's when the economy car, like the VW Beetle, came to market. Then even young people in countries like the USA could afford their own car, and it became more common for people in poorer countries to buy a car.

Speaking of figures, while the Toyota Corolla has the record for most cars produced sold with the same name, the original VW Beetles holds the record for the most cars produced and sold that were essentially all the same generation.

One thing, though to keep in mind is that it wasn't a switch from horses to horseless carriages. Most people who had horses for transportation were rich. For the great majority of people on Earth it was a switch from walking to ICE vehicles.

 

Would you have posted that link if the clarity you think needed was cause the Rav4 was brought up instead? It too out sold the Corolla last year, and isn't on that top 25 list.

 

Economist had interesting article on the impact of people's habits on state tax revenue. Where states once got huge % from gas and tobacco, now a declining amount and share. California first to be impacted. People have taken up different sins. So vaping and gambling taxes.

I see it around me as I don't know anyone who still smokes or has recently bought a truck or an ICE vehicle. Granted I live in a suburban enclave but within a rural R county.

I see an increasing number of trucks piling up on dealer and used car lots.

When I look at the cost to buy a new vehicle, I wonder how the normal family can afford the average vehicle. Or a new house. Answer: They can't. Look at the election results.

My father bought his first house new for $3,300. Yes, that is the right number of digits. All brick, 3 bedrooms. Near suburbs. Current price per zillow $1,240,000. Back then 1 income, one car. Carpool or bus to work. kids walked to school.

Me first house $33,000. Townhouse. Currently $615,000. Buying that with a 10% down payment (who has that much for a first home) your monthly payment would be more than my father paid for his house.

 

yes

 

From what I understand the tax revenue shot up here in Colorado when marijuana became legal. But since it's taxed so high apparently lots of people, now hooked on the drug, have begun to buy it off the street again which has lead to tax revenue declining. At least that's the rumor, I haven't seen that in a paper or anything.

 

I would have grown up in a similar time frame to you.
You mention a first home and that is how many families entered home ownership back then.
My dad and mom started out in an apartment and eventually after saving for years bought a starter home and began a family. They would then stair step into different homes as finances and life demanded. I think after stair stepping through 4 homes they finally had a home we stayed in for the rest of their lives.
Mike - do you remember bunk beds - I won't say how many kids our family had but it was a bunch. The boys bedroom has 3 sets of bunk beds in the one room until dad finished adding a bedroom downstairs in the basement - talk about togetherness.

My homeownership story is very similar - starting out renting and eventually after stair stepping through 4 or 5 homes over 45 years we are now hopefully in our final home

 

My parent's first home was $14,000. It was a two bedroom, but Dad turned it quickly into a three bedroom, big enough for a family that ended up being 6.

Today: There was a studio apartment for sale here for $150,000 IIRC. It was about the only thing I could potentially afford within the past several years. But I can't move a family of 4 (all human, no pets) into a studio apartment.

 

our daughter and son in law live in a 650 square foot one bedroom in manhattan for $850,000.

 

Not sure why our local post office haven't pulled out the old charging stations.

 

Even if they are inductive, they could still be used as a power source for J plugs.

 

The latest USPS commercial shows the EVs all being unplugged.

 

i wish our mailman looked like that, or even came to the door with packages instead of dropping them out the window onto the street.
i can only hope musks first victim is the post office

 

That would be a full time job in itself.

 

We had a package lost in the US Mail a few years ago and had to call our local Post Office to start the investigation process.

He asked where it was coming from and when it was due. When we told him where it was coming from - a USPS Distribution Package Center in the Northeast I heard him sigh and say he will start the paperwork but not to have any hope of a resolution on finding the package - apparently the Regional USPS Distribution Centers in the Northeast USA are some sort of Bermuda Triangles for packages - I'm not sure if they get lost or stolen.

My impression is if our Mailman would deliver a package by dropping it out the vehicle window his Supervisor would come out on his route to fire him. All our packages are hand delivered to the front door and he rings the doorbell - I always make sure to thank him after each package delivery he makes to us.
Update: I forgot about the Postal Union - there probably wouldn't be a thing in the world you could do if your Mailman threw a package out the window - I'm sure even the slightest disciplinary action would involve the Postal Union and a hearing.

The substitute Mailman when our regular Mailman goes on vacation is a whole different story.

 

I sent a registered letter to a person and when I checked the tracking, it showed the letter going as far as the north Jersey distribution center and just sat there. It was still showing there when the people I sent it to called me up and said they got it.