Featured California’s $100 registration surcharge

That's fine, but you'd have to take that up with the author. The OP tho is about California's schizophrenic anti-ev optics - appearance of punishing rule.
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Big deal. Those numbers are an accounting shell game. After Tesla invested billions in R&D - as well as sunk cost setting up Factory tooling, robots, programming Etc .... divide those expenses by a handful of cars? Sure, make a small enough amount of cars and you lose a million per car.
When did it become acceptable to presume your sunk costs turn to profit overnight. This is exactly why Legacy car builders are whining about it. They're used to using old systems for newer profits.
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As far as $100 per year cost to drive an EV or PHEV, that doesn't seem bad at all. Many of us pay more than that per month on insurance, more than that per month on fuel, more than that per month on car payments.

I can understand the change to electricity means the taxes for repair the roads will need to shift. Now, I'm not saying that certain governments are doing it the best way possible. But when no gasoline tax goes to the roads, how do you fund the roads? $100 per year doesn't sound bad to me.

 

True, perhaps. But what about the time factor towards demand? Ford expected to sell 150,000 Lightnings last year, but they only sold 24,000.

I think this shows a fine balance that is harder to achieve then just throwing money at something until it starts producing money.

So they planed on producing and selling 150,000 Lightnings. Nobody bought 84% of those Lightnings. Then people like you turn around and blame Ford for not producing enough of them. I don't get the point. So build as many Lightnings as possible, and Ford will somehow start selling all of them and start making bucket loads of profits off of them? Is that what your are saying?

 

as has been said so many times, gas taxes do not go to the roads. they go to the general fund, and the legislatures decide how to spend them.

 

Ok. So if we take away gas taxes then we still have the same amount of money for roads then? I did not know this.

At any rate, gas taxes bring in revenue for something, whatever that something is. If gas purchases eventually diminish then so does the revenue from those taxes and then there's less taxes for whatever that something they are used for is. So either the something has to suffice with less money, or gas taxes have to be raised to the point the overall revenue is the same, or they'll need to get those taxes from somewhere else.

Communities can't pay less taxes and the governments still receive the same amount of tax revenue. It doesn't work like that.

 

you can raise any tax at any time. people should simply understand that gas taxes don't specifically pay for road and bridge repair, all taxes do.
'm not implying that there should be no gas tax, or ev tax. i'm just stating facts. feel free to correct me where i'm wrong.

 

Sounds like we agree on the same things then.

But whether people don't mind or whether they hate having an EV fee, I don't see it as such a big deal personally. With the end of the $7,500 federal tax credit looming over us, I think there are bigger things to worry about than paying $8/month more on a car because of some fee.

Sure, if we could have the EV federal tax credit, some good state credits and no EV fees, I for one wouldn't complain about it. I'd love to have an EV as my next car. But if the government wants to do whatever else, I don't care. Personally I'll buy what I can afford if I feel it's the right thing to do. If not, then I won't buy anything.

 

Ford gave up control of Stealships margins. Even if manufacturing chose to lose x amount of thousands per car so that more buyers would walk into the Stealership, they had them marked up so high, you end up with the scenario they are in now. Tesla didn't have that problem. They took it in the shorts without dealerships and that helped absorb all of the financial hardship of starting up a factory from scratch.
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Then legacy automakers are doomed, period. There are too many protections in place for stealerships so that manufacturers have very little they can do about what the stealerships decide to do.

One reason the entire auto industry is suffering right now is that so many stealerships placed high markups on their vehicles. Now more people are under water on their car loans than ever. Many are well over $10k under water. Because of that, fewer people than ever are able to get a car loan, and even if they can, now they have to pay back those markups in order to sell or trade in their cars.

Some Tesla owners are also under water, but due to Tesla lowering the prices of their vehicles instead of coming out with an econo car and leaving the others at the same price.

 

I have a smart electric meter on the house like most do now. Maybe they could do that with electric cars and plug ins, and the fee is based on kwh like it is based on gallons of fuel. The data is sent electronically and the dmv sends the registration fee including your fuel tax.
I don’t believe my Prime plug in pays any extra fees, but the dmv website hasn’t helped in knowing that for sure.

 

I think there are two main ways of skinning a cat.

One way, tax things based on use. Sure, gasoline tax doesn't go to just the roads, but in a way it would make more sense if it did. That way, the more people buy land yachts and drive them around, the more they pay for the roads they damage as a result. Doing the same to EVs also makes sense.

Or the other way is to raise taxes on things that it would be better to do without, and lower taxes or even incentivize things that are considered better for everyone. That way if junk food is causing harm and eating veggies is better for the body, then more people will tend to buy veggies over junk food because they end up being cheaper. The same could apply to transportation.

Which you feel is better probably depends on your political stance. But I think everything is basically the second option. It's just that different politicians want to fund/support/protect and defund/unsupport/neglect different things.

 

Ill informed and naive is the best way to sum up that post.

Toyota makes all injection molded parts at its USA factories and well as stamps out all its metal pieces from raw metal sheet rolls.
That is just the beginning - it also makes machines and completely assembles its own engines.
Our Plant has a Stamping Department, Body Weld Department, Paint Department, Assembly Department, Quality Control Department as well as a Powertrain Department and Plastics Injection Moulding Plant.
Powertrain would include axels and transmissions.

It is telling to see negative post about Companies that contribute to the American Economy by manufacturing products in our country and gainfully employing hundreds of thousands of Americans providing them with gainful jobs and good lives.

It is a shame we don't have many more successful companies supplying good manufacturing jobs to our fellow countrymen to support themselves and their families.

But enough of that - one nice thing about aging and maturing is the ability to spot a Troll and step away from a circular interaction where the other person is all mouth and no ears.

 

Isn't the Rav4 still make in KY? It was one of the three countries producing them starting in 2020 TMMK.

 

We get it. You're absolutely sure that Toyota has enough production within the USA that tarrifs won't affect them.

But Toyota feels differently, and since you ignore the fact of how much Toyota also imports to the USA, thinking that tariffs won't affect Toyota makes no sense. If Toyota says that the proposed tariffs will hurt the industry, then why should I believe you over Toyota themselves?

Toyota Exec Warns Proposed Trump Policies Could Hurt Industry, Consumers

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be any tariffs. But saying that tariffs will have zero effect on a foreign company like Toyota that yes, does produce many vehicles and parts in the USA, but also imports many parts and vehicles to the USA, does not compute.

 

I'll make one last post and then let the chicken little sky is falling contingent take over the thread.

Mike yes RAV 4's are made in Kentucky.

Auto companies have contingency plans - especially the foreign transplants - because of natural disasters, political changes, UAW meddling you must have an operational plan - a backup plan - a backup for your backup plan and a back up plan if all those fail.

A competent Auto Maker has a primary part supplier and 2 or 3 secondary suppliers for that part in case of contingencies.

So to be competitive you would get the highest quality part to meet or exceed your quality standards at the best price. To be competitive these parts are bid out to the companies that can supply the highest quality part at the lowest cost.

Toyota has specific programs to develop and source parts locally as much as possible. They have contingency plans to shift parts production as necessary to meet changing business climates.

It could cause temporary discomfort and raise the overall price of the car to source all parts nationally but that plan is in place.

You can bet your rear end Toyota and its vast Corporate Resources are prepared for situations that you could not imagine in your wildest dreams. There are people employed in the Automotive Industry whose only job is to prepare for emergencies and changing Manufacturing environments. A whole Department under the heading Production Control takes care of managing parts, production schedules, Automotive sales forecast for the month and things you could not imagine.

I at one time had an assignment to work with a Group whose sole purpose was to forecast energy prices and bid on contracts for electric and gas prices to lock in the lowest possible prices for energy. These contracts were bid out years in advance before the utilities were needed. The type of backup and secondary contract agreements and back up plans for colder than normal winters, or temporary utility supply interruptions were staggering.

Toyota will be just fine.

 

And the costs of road maintenance surpassed was collected in fuel taxes before plug ins came along, so other taxes were already paying for roads.

Could be easy to do, but will become difficult to implement. For one thing, the car companies likely won't want to share the data from the car.

Moving everything to a per mile fee would be the fairest. Whether that is the same for all or not comes down to what becomes of taxes on fuel.

Are actually you claiming Toyota models made in the US with parts and materials sourced within the country, and nothing is imported?

The percent American content for a car model wasn't just a made up figure.

 

Okay! So first define "just fine."

• You're right. I don't see Toyota leaving the USA over this.
• I don't see Toyota going bankrupt.
• Yes, they can get all their labor and parts from the USA, and if it still makes sense, they can also pay the extra cost on the few things that are still cheaper to import even with tariffs.
• So yes, tariffs or no tariffs, Toyota will still sell cars in the USA.

BUT!

• There are BIG reasons why Toyota hasn't already moved all its manufacturing to the USA. And it's not just redundancy, it is also cost.
• You can't say that it costs the same to produce the same part in the USA as it does in Mexico. You can't say that the labor costs are the same. You can't say the material costs are the same.
• Car manufacturing already has narrow profit margins.
• You can't say that moving all operations to the USA will keep costs the same.
• And you can't say that those higher costs won't be passed on to consumers.

I see two obvious things that will happen:

• Car prices in general will go up.
• More economic models will disappear.

The big gamble here is if all these political policies also trickle the wealth down to the general public. I mean, who cares if car prices go up if your wages double and triple. The gamble is what if that doesn't happen, and now you have citizens having a hard time to make ends meet who's only option is to buy products that were made by workers that make $35/hr and not by workers that make $3.5/hr? Then what? How are the cars supposed to cost the same? They won't!

 

That depends on your state. Here in Virginia, at least some of the taxes go directly to VDOT who maintain the roads.

Products: Camry + Hybrid, RAV4 Hybrid, Lexus ES, Lexus 300h, 4-cylinder & V6 engines, hydrogen fuel cell kits, axles, steering components, machined blocks, cylinder heads, crankshafts, camshafts, rods & axle assemblies, and dies

From Toyota Motor Manufacturing Kentucky - Toyota USA Newsroom

 

Old article? NJ's not listed and they charge $250 on top of the registration fee for an EV.