Featured EV tax credit end good for Tesla?

which japanese manufacturer is making a serious run at a us marketed bev?

 

@tideland might want to mention his latest acquisition

 

Well, I think repealing the EV tax credit is part of an attempt to slow EV investments and tariffs are for trying to attract manufacturing to the USA.

While EVs may be the future, getting them as cheap to produce as ICEVs is kind of hard. Some have said that the death of the econo car, and the rise in car prices in general has in part been the result of companies investing in EVs. They need money to fuel those investments until they start making a profit. If they don't feel they need to invest in EVs, then in the short term their vehicles might become cheaper and they can sell more. So counter all that with tariffs, and it seems like there is a hope it all falls together and people still can afford to drive vehicles. But likely a lot of companies will scale back on their EV promises and become more like Toyota in their EV offerings.

The scary thing to me is that if China keeps figuring out how to make high quality EVs at very low costs, then eventually they'll find a way to sell their cars elsewhere, including the USA, and will win the vehicular war. If US companies don't figure out how to compete with that, they may be left in the dust, if they are doomed already. It's complicated, difficult to forsee the future. Let's hope those in charge are trying to do what's best for everyone, and if they make a mistake, they admit it and do their best to fix it.

That, and the other scary thing is what I find as I keep tracking typhoons and hurricanes.

 

Part shortages and interest rates may have had more to do with the death of the econo car. Many of the true econo models, like the Yaris, were canceled in the US before the EV mandates and COVID.

 

Don't worry about it too much, his math has... not worked out in a few other places.

 

Is he still not including the value of the trade in for the Tesla?

 

Yes. Definitely not something to blame just EVs for, as there are obviously several factors. But at the same time, there is the possibility that EV investing has hindered saving the econo car too. And in no way am I saying that the move to EVs is a bad thing. But the reality is never just one thing of another. It can be very, very complicated, many factors involved, and not just one culprit for everything that happens.

Also, I'm trying to see it through the eyes of those against the mandate. Why would someone not want to mandate EVs? What is wrong with them? I don't think it's that these people are just evil and want to ruin the world with tailpipe pollution. There must be economic reasons behind those ideas. After all, society is complicated. You might be able to benefit society in one way but doing so might hurt it in another way. Which would you prefer? Being forced to buy a bit more expensive EVs now but the potential of those cars producing far fewer emissions and being potentially much more affordable in some future or just have legacy automakers pump out the cheapest way they know how to pump out cars, with as little regulation on emissions and safety as reasonably possible, so that they are hopefully cheaper to the masses for the short term?

Obviously if both are possible I'm all in. Show me that $17,000 econo EV (that goes 250 miles in my area so I can make it to the next charging station South of here even at -20 °F) and I'll buy one!

Thanks!

I love what Bob is able to do, but yes, he always seems to throw out a trade-in value. Which both doesn't matter for those of use who own cars now worth a couple grand, at best, and that was an asset worth that much money that should have been considered that much money at that point of time. A $40,000 car is the same as $40,000.

 

If the minimums have already been met, one could always take a nice tax deduction by donating to a charity.
Here's one of our favorites;
Charity Vehicle Donations for America's Disabled Veterans


.

 

GM announces 1,000 more layoffs. There's an indication that they are backing down from their EV promises. GM and others are already moving more of their manufacturing to the USA with the threat of tariffs in place.

 

Some of these outfits are 11 figures into EVs... they want to salvage what they can on that investment.

 

But returns don't always mean volume sales. If tariffs and such make car prices go up, selling a few 6 figure cars might be easier than selling many affordable cars.

 

Don't forget that one reason to build and sell "a few cars" is to exercise some patents, which they may wind up licensing or selling later- revenue without having to make or sell all of the cars themselves.

Gotta stake out turf.

 

let's turn the question around; why would they want to promote ev's?

 

you can't compete with china and have a decent standard of living for your workers

 

It wasn't up to car companies to save the econo car. It was up to car buyers. The sales of cheap models were dropping before car companies started making the big investments into EVs. Margins are tight on these models, selling a few isn't going to cover the investment into making them. Cars aren't TVs where the resource use to have a loss leader model is small. Making a cheap car is more likely to mean not making a profitable model.

Which leads to the econo models being canceled. Low interest rates didn't help. They allowed people that would have bought the econo car to buy something else. The part shortages from the pandemic lead to the car companies making just the higher trims. With number of units made limited, they needed to make what got the most profit.

The only way EVs contributed to the demise of the econo car is in tying up funds the company could use to certify a cheap model made for another market, but the company would have to think the model would sell enough to justify sending the funds for that first. EVs helping out the CAFE likely have a bigger impact; the company needs to sell less fuel efficient cars at a potential loss to meet it now.

Even if a car company considered a cheap car now, the tariffs will kill it. None of the recent econo models were made in the US; the Versa is made in Mexico. The last round of tariffs killed the Focus Activ from coming here.

I believe is it mostly ignorance that is fed by parties with a vested interest against EVs. It seems many are unaware that these are plug in mandates, and that they could buy a new PHEV under them. They might also think the mandate extends to used ICE cars.

 

toyota has made the least investment in ev's at least vehicle production wise, how are their econo cars doing?

 

Good question. It seems the idea is to attempt to stop global trade with the USA and move most everything possible to domestic manufacturing. That way, $5,000 Chinese cars won't make it here.

This may be what I meant.

True, although the econo car market kind of comes and goes. Some say there is now a high demand for econo cars. Of course it takes years to design, develop, certify and such a new car model, even from another country.

They don't have any in the USA. When looking at data adjusted for inflation, an econo car would be, in today's market, between $15,000 and $20,000 brand new. Only the Mitsubishi Mirage and Nissan Versa meet that criteria, and they were even on the chopping block before the election ended. Toyota gave up the econo market when they stopped selling rebadged Mazda 2s under the Yaris name in 2020. Their cheapest car, the Corolla, starts at about $23,500 if you get a base model. A 5 year loan with an 8% interest rate would be close to $600 per month on such a car. That's a lot more than what a median wage worker can afford.

Corollas might be selling well, I don't now. But like a lot of cars, like Teslas, these do not target the majority of Americans. At least not ones with half a brain cell that such prices are unaffordable.

 

then perhaps the demise of econo cars has been driven by the market, and not ev investments

 

Sort of. People buy more than they should when things go well. Then things go south and everyone wants an econo car. Look at 2008. The same thing is happening right now. People had the money during the pandemic to get something better than an econo car. Now they can't keep econo cars in stock, they fly of lots like hotcakes with maple syrup and whip cream on top.

 

that's a difficult analysis for manufacturers. they can't keep shifting back and forth to meet peoples whims.
perhaps it is more profitable to make big bucks on loaded land barges when times are good, or it may just be short term thinking, to please wall street