Featured Toyota says California-led EV mandates are ‘impossible’ as states fall short of goal

Reaction to the election results

 

Nevertheless, Toyota is making points with trump.
There will be many deals made with corporations, let the sucking up begin.
And, Toyota is worried about musk, the trump whisperer

 

Don’t worry regulations can be extended a little. Nov 2028, time is up, and the thing is out the door, 1/20/2029.

 

Isn't Musk wanting Trump to lower safety standards so he can continue testing his autonomous vehicles, or something like that?

The last time I looked, most of the car industry is in deep trouble, although that might be a good thing, depending how you look at it. Volkswagen, Stellantis, Nissan, all wanting to shut down factories and lay off thousands.

It seems to me the bottom line is this: as safety and emissions standards continue to rise, so does the cost to manufacture cars. This leads to cars becoming more expensive, which overall they have. The sub-$20,000 new car segment no longer exists in the USA and the average car price is highest it has been since many, many decades ago. So unless governments either relax their regulations or let China build our cars, then cars will become more of a luxury item that fewer people will be able to afford...

Which, that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as there's a suitable alternative, especially seeing how many people die from car accidents as well as all the problems caused from pollution. Fewer cars on the road would mean fewer accidents and less pollution.

 

I agree with complicated!

next few years will be interesting, if nothing else

 

So far it seems that the idea isn't to compete with China but to rather just block them.

Fighting fire with fire would mean to heavily incentivise domestic EV manufacturing.

I don't see a way to promote local EVs over foreign ones other than either high tariffs or high incentives on domestics or both.

Trump seemed to like the idea of Chinese cars being built and sold here.

California is about EV adoption. I think EV adoption and competing with China's EVs are two separate things. We could end up in a world where everywhere else people drive Chinese EVs but in the USA we drive domestic gas cars.

 

We’ll find out

 

Toyota could just make more Mirai to meet the mandate

CARB is moving to a value accounting system from the ZEV credit one. While a ZEV car sale will no longer be worth 3 to 4 in credits for the percentage target, there are methods for a manufacturer to get more than 1 value out of a ZEV put on the road. Reselling a leased ZEV will add 0.25 value, for example. They can also be banking ZEV values with cars sold now, or trade with someone that has excess.
Understanding California’s Advanced Clean Cars II Regulation - RMI

Toyota is just shifting blame because they missed the market shift, didn't want to pay to catch up when these mandates were announced, and will now have to pay Tesla, again, to meet California's requirements.

PS: If the targets are actually too hard to meet, CARB has the authority to make changes.

 

Interesting.

Is it making more Mirai or selling more Mirai that would "solve" the problem for Toyota? It would seem to me that not a lot of people are interested in buying a Mirai, so the only way to sell more would be to lower the price, which also would eat up profits for Toyota.

I'm not against any EV mandate, I see good in them. But looking at it from a car manufacturer's perspective it seems a lot of companies that invested heavily in BEV tech are now having terrible financial problems, such as with Volkswagen, Ford, Rivian and many others. I feel it's too soon to say that Toyota is any sort of financial crisis for not having jumped on the EV movement quite yet. Who knows, maybe sales for ID.4s, Electric F150s and Leafs will start picking up here soon, but then again maybe not.

Who determines if the targets are too hard to meet? How many car manufacturer's are meeting these targets and how are they doing financially?

 

the bev revolution has not really affected toyota yet. although they have surely lost some sales, they are still having a banner year. and bev sales would probably cost them profits, unless they could get msrp

 

Virginia Dems had passed law and mandated that Va. will follow Ca. on EV mandate timeline, now I can't remember if the repub Gov was able to change it. But we have not done anything different yet, and we are not CARB.

 

Their troubles aren't solely because of the EV investments.

 

While I'm sure that's the case, there can always be a last straw. What percent of BEV investing has been part of their overall recent losses?

It seems to me that companies with the least BEV investing seem to be doing the best financially at the moment, generally speaking.

 

GM seems to be doing well.
Ford incurred a $1bil cost when they canceled their 3 row BEV program. They, and Hyundai, also had warranty costs eat into profits.

Maybe it is the EVs the may cause, or maybe it is in not having economy models at this time.

VW seems to be the only one in actual trouble.

 

VW, Nissan and Stellantis all seem in hot water.

GM seems to be doing well by focusing more on non-economy models. Even the launch of the new Bolt has been pushed back and I'm having doubts it will come to fruition.

It seems that economy models simply aren't profitable any more, at least from non-Chinese companies. The Mitsubishi Mirage, Kia Rio and Nissan Versa are all on the chopping block.

 

i feel so bad for Toyota, after spending so much on ads telling the world no one wants ev's, putting them way behind the eight ball - only to find out their number one selling car got past by in sales by the model Y.



i don't believe in karma, but they say it's a real bee-itch
Over the decades many a manufacturer has purchased vehicles from other manufacturers and simply slapped a little Chrome molding on the side with their brand name. Toyota could always buy a batch of Kia Hyundai EVS and do likewise
.

 

I do feel like EV mandates could eventually price those of us poorer folk out car, at least without the incentives and at least out of a car that can safely make it to the next charging station.

EVs should drop in price as their cost to manufacture goes down. However, I'm not sure we're there yet. Obviously Toyota lagging behind isn't helping. But I don't think comparing the Model Y or even the Model 3 as suitable alternatives to the Corolla for a customer like me is an easy pill to swallow just due to the shear cost difference.