1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2015 1.8L rattling at low rpm, head gasket?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by stokesey, Oct 19, 2024.

  1. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Good plan. EGR is kinda... fun... Access is poor and the bolt and bracket design is wack. Don't even try it without pulling the wipers and top cowl. Don't worry about the EGR cooler too much as it'll just gum up again, if gases can get thru its enough. The small ports in the intake from the EGR pipe looked like the worst blockage on my engine. According to the popular Toyota Youtuber, oil catches aren't too helpful, and can make you fail smog if you happen to live in Cali.

    A fuel treatment to clean your injectors probably won't hurt either. Good luck with it.
     
  2. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    It makes sense, but I'm not convinced this is always the cause of the rattle!
     
  3. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    419
    88
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks. I always look online for good videos first and I see there are a bunch. I have a gen2 that I currently drive that is problem free, so I am not in a rush to get this done.
    I can't see the downside to the catch can. Also seems easy enough to take out of the loop if needed, but I have never had to worry about one before. I think I am going to go with a budget model on Amazon with a bottom drain, to make frequent service easier.
     
  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    8,489
    5,056
    7
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I hope you keep us updated… I am sure most of your assumptions are wrong
     
  5. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    434
    174
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    It's from misfires, I'm pretty sure a hydro lock would cause serious damage. So yes, there are many things that can cause a rattle (anything that causes misfires), but if you have misfires on 1 and 2 and it regularly happens on cold starts then the writing is on the wall.

    :eek:
     
    Brian1954 likes this.
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Learning so much tonight.
     
    mjoo likes this.
  7. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Not sure why you're so sure. Maybe you can explain to me why my engine rattled at cold start but it doesn't anymore after a thorough cleaning and replacing plugs and coils?

    But I'll be back in six months so you can make your "he wants to wait and see if it gets better" joke for the fourth time in one thread:). I'll happily admit it if my head is blown, but right now all signs point to "No". There's not much worse than a false positive diagnosis on a huge engine job.
     
  8. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Agree about hydrolocking.

    Do you think the EGR cooler is the source of blockage? Its upstream from the valve, so I'd argue it's less important. And that's exhaust coming thru the cooler, IMHO you can spend all day cleaning it up, but it'll be filthy again after an hour of driving. If air flows thru fine it's good to go.

    I had misfires on 2/3/4, not 1. Another reason I suspect I'm not dealing with a blown head.
     
  9. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    434
    174
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    It might not be as important as far as effecting drivability, but one might argue that is important for maintaining proper cylinder temps and EGR function, which is why I clean mine every year. The theory of "it clogs quick so don't bother" is pretty wild to me. On the other hand, I barely ever fully clean my valve I just quickly wire-brush the seal. It's pretty much stayed at the same level of slightly carbon coated for the past 4 years. I'm certainly no expert.
     
  10. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Maybe I wasn't clear, in my opinion that cooler will be constantly blackened up, but it should work fine if exhaust passes thru freely.

    Reading up more on this engine, it seems that oil consumption is actually its main failure mode. I suspect that high engine temps due to oil starvation (and possibly excess heat cycles due to frequent stop/start nature of the hybrid engine) are the root cause of head gasket failure.

    I don't see how a clogged EGR would cause a head gasket to fail. The ECU might switch to more lean mixture with a clogged EGR, but I don't see the increased heat from a lean mixture being nearly as significant as oil starvation and consumption. Of course, oil consumption would increase oil vapors in the exhaust, which would clog the EGR system faster.

    So I think that EGR clogging is a symptom of poor engine performance, rather than a cause of head failure.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Not much “H” in that IMHO LOL. The cooler carbon build-up is gradual, but inevitable. It’s a third Gen feature.

    I see, oil just “scoots” through the combustion chamber.

    Don’t get me started.
     
  12. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    419
    88
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I can feel the tension in this thread

    my only advice is to ask questions and take advice with an open mind and be ready to leave some assumptions behind. The Prius is not a typical car so what you have learned elsewhere may not apply fully

    the big contributors on this site are very knowledgeable about these cars and answer questions like engineers and mechanics. I defer to them
     
    mjoo and stokesey like this.
  13. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I'm trying to be humble, but I took a lot of flak on this thread. One guy told me my head is blown when it wasn't and sarcastically suggested I "wait and see if it gets better", another said I'm "making it worse" by using cheap parts on a possibly blown engine with 270k on the clock, and now it's looking more and more like this "EGR clogs and blows your head gasket" theory is a paper tiger. So maybe it's the experts on here that could use a little more H in their Os...

    I'm all about finding solutions and sharing them with the community. At the end of the day it's about ideas, not egos.

    Back to subject matter. Wouldn't EGR clogging prevent oil from entering the combustion chamber? Furthermore, rings that are too loose are putting way more oil into the combustion chamber. The engine is likely burning up the oil supply, overheating, and then the head blows, just like any other engine that consumes.
     
    bettergolf likes this.
  14. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    100%, I came to the forum for expert opinions. People who work on these cars all day, have studied the specs, and have rebuilt the engines will know what's up. I'm used to getting ribbed for being a noob, but in this case it's looking like there is some straight up wrong information being shared.

    Hybrids are a different beast, and I'm the first to admit I'm no expert. I enjoy a challenge and I'm not afraid of a little trash talk if it's productive. Bring it.
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    PCV clogging would do that.

    Like Gasket Master for example? Their forte is fixing them, and they have some theories as to why the gaskets blow, but... Keep in mind what keeps them in business.
     
    mjoo likes this.
  16. wadekabuli

    wadekabuli New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    2
    0
    0
    Location:
    california
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Have you ever done a compression test yet? if so than you realize wihch cylinder is low compress, it should be arround 105 & up other than that YES you are right it's a Headgasket. make sure befor all of that check the spark plug and observe the antifreez tank to see if it's low, if you have access to run a DTC run
    1- Sparkplugs
    2- Engine waterpump
    3- fuel injectros
     
  17. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2018
    434
    174
    0
    Location:
    IL
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    III
    LOL. Everyone here has been perfectly fine. You've received plenty of ideas and you don't seem to keen on listening to them, which is perfectly fair since this is a public forum, but stop pretending like you're "taking flak". I try to appreciate people taking their time to try to help me even if they don't do it exactly how I want them to.
     
  18. stokesey

    stokesey New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2024
    28
    3
    0
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Uhhh, "blown head gaskets" keep them in business... :cautious:

    Right, PCV gasses contain more oil than EGR. But if the engine is burning oil, EGR contains burnt oil. Both are great for combustion.
     
  19. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    419
    88
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Seems to me that an EGR system that is not doing its job correctly can contribute to head gasket failure. How do I know this? ChatGPT.
    According to their knowlege base, a clogged EGR will result in ...

    1. **Increased Combustion Temperatures**: A clogged EGR system can result in higher combustion temperatures, which can increase the thermal stress on the engine components, including the head gasket.

    2. **Engine Knocking**: Higher combustion temperatures can also lead to engine knocking (pre-ignition or detonation), which creates excessive pressure and can damage the head gasket.

    3. **Uneven Cylinder Temperatures**: A malfunctioning EGR system can cause uneven temperatures across the cylinders, leading to thermal expansion and contraction that can compromise the integrity of the head gasket.

    4. **Increased Engine Load**: A clogged EGR system can cause the engine to work harder to maintain performance, increasing the overall stress on the engine and its components.

    To prevent these issues, it's important to maintain the EGR system by cleaning or replacing components as needed. Regular maintenance and addressing any EGR-related issues promptly can help protect the head gasket and other engine components from damage. If you suspect a problem with the EGR system, it's advisable to have it inspected and serviced by a qualified mechanic.

    So there you go... Several good reasons why the EGR is important to safeguard your head gasket. Is it the only way for one to fail? Nope. We have an electric water pump that can stop pumping, old age...

    Point is that the Prius is a victim of EGR issues and it requires maintenance. Outside of this forum, do people know this? not sure. Does the owner's manual have a maintenance procedure to service it? I checked my car's history ( toyota owner's site, and unless EGR service was bundled in something else, it was not done).
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk EGR Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    56,671
    39,221
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    And once the head gasket is blown, cleaning the EGR then does not fix the head gasket. In the course of head gasket replacement is a good time to clean it though, wipers and cowl off, coolant drained, intake manifold off, and so on.