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Gen 3 Prius V - Hazards won't turn off

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Danno M, Oct 20, 2024.

  1. Danno M

    Danno M New Member

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    Location:
    Eastern MA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Five
    The Lead Up:
    A few months ago, my 2013 Prius V with ~138K miles started to throw some errors where some of the lights on the dash went on indicating issues with the ABS system. I took a picture of them but I can't for the life of me find it right now. I think it was the lights for the Brake, Traction Control, ABS and a few others. The lights would come on and within 5-30 minutes would usually go away again.

    The Problem:
    About a month ago I walked up to my car after a quick stop, and noticed my hazards flash very quickly (<1 second) and turn off again. When I got in the car, nothing seemed to be amiss and the rest of the day went normally. The next morning, after another momentary stop, I came back to the car and the hazards were on. Since then, the hazards have never turned off.

    I need to fix this problem within two months because I live in MA, and as part of the yearly safety inspection, all cars on the road must have functional turn signals and hazards, and my tag is due this month (they apparently allow a 60 day window).

    What I've Tried:
    I took it to a local shop who said that they thought that it was an issue with a relay in the dash, but that they couldn't get the dealership to get them the part and that I'd have to take it to the dealer. Thinking that this was a bit weird, I did a tiny bit of debug myself. I pulled the hazard switch from the dash and disconnected the cable and it made no difference. I pulled some relays and fuses hoping that I could isolate the fault by system, but no luck. The best compromise I've made is to just pull the fuse for the turn signals and the hazards. I still get the constant clicking (even with the car off) but at least people on the road aren't confused.

    I took it to the dealer who diagnosed the car with several faults:
    • C1239 Foreign Object is Attached on Tip of Rear Speed Sensor LH
    • C1466 Rear Speed Sensor RH Circuit
    • C1467 Rear Speed Sensor LH Circuit
    Additionally they said that the fault causing the issue with the hazards was inside the ABS ECU as part of the ABS Brake Booster Assembly, and their solution would be to replace the whole assembly. In total they quoted $3k for the Brake Booster replacement and $1k for each rear wheel to replace the rear wheel hub and bearing assemblies.

    I took the car home because I didn't want to pay them damn near the total value of the vehicle. I replaced the rear wheel hub and bearing assemblies myself because I'm at least moderately handy.

    Finally, I got into the engine compartment and did a little fiddling. I found interestingly that unplugging the harness from the ABS actuator did not clear the condition. While I was in there I lightly scoured some of the contacts on the Brake Booster side of the connection in case there was corrosion making a problem, but that didn't help either. If the fault is caused by a short inside the Brake ECU pulling a signal to ground, like the dealership claimed, I would think that it's possible that unplugging the connection would clear the faulty condition. Because unplugging it didn't stop the hazards, it leads me to think that the short could be somewhere else like inside the harness.

    Final Thoughts:
    Do any of you have any suggestions on what I could try next to debug the system? It would be quite nice if I could do enough debugging myself to isolate the issue before I commit to spending $3k for the Brake Booster replacement if that's what it is. Thank you so much for reading this long post!
     
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Model:
    Three
    Did the speed sensor problems clear?

    The brake booster is a known issue but I would expect different codes mandating its replacement. They did not have other codes to support the brake booster replacement?

    The flasher ic circuit is in the combination meter. In a v the combo meter is reliable.

    First thing I would do is load check the 12v battery. They have been known to cause odd issues.

    IMG_6464.jpeg IMG_6465.jpeg
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    rjparker's 2nd illustration shows a yellow wire from L27 pin 4 at the combination meter, wandering off toward the Hazard Warning Signal Switch Assembly.

    The illustration above it shows the Hazard Warning Signal Switch Assembly, but no yellow wire arriving there. This actually isn't unusual in the Toyota wiring diagrams: they'll have one diagram show a certain thing, but only the parts of it that matter for that one diagram's purposes. That one drawing is showing only the trip odometer, clock setting, and MPH/km/h buttons (which apparently are included in the Hazard Warning Signal Switch Assembly, in a v).

    Elsewhere in the EWD, there is probably another picture of the Hazard Warning Signal Switch Assembly that won't show the odometer and clock buttons, but will show the hazard switch, and will show the mystery wire arriving there.

    I'll guess, though, that the real story will be in where else that mystery wire goes, on the way. In the liftback, it turned out there's a splice in that wire and it also connects to a terminal HZRI on the brake actuator (for reasons no one has ever quite explained).

    I believe the v brake actuator is similar to the gen 3 liftback's, and if it turns out there is also a connection from it to the hazard switch, I would give it a suspicious eye.

    There have been a lot of cases of that brake actuator terminal getting shorted to something internally there, and causing the hazards to misbehave. If it gets shorted to ground, it'll just make the hazards be on all the time. If it gets shorted to the SP1 speed-pulse signal (which is the terminal right next to it), you get an even goofier effect, where the hazards flash faster when the car is going faster.

    Now that I've written all that, for the first time I notice your post #1 mentions you unplugged the brake actuator and the hazards were still on. :oops: So i would say you probably have ruled out a short inside the actuator.

    That being the case, you probably are going to want to look at enough of the Electrical Wiring Diagram to find all the places that hazard switch wire gets spliced off to. The thread I linked above has illustrations showing details for the liftback, but they could be different for the v.

    Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat

    Once you know the whole path of that signal, you can break out a meter and start figuring where it is being pulled to ground.

    In the liftback, it goes through at least one junction connector, which at least offers you an easy opportunity to break it there and find out which side is pulled down. (Or, it would be an easy opportunity, if the junction connector was easy to get to.)
     
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  4. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Another hazard switch contact IMG_6466.jpeg

    Detail
    IMG_6468.jpeg
     
    #4 rjparker, Oct 20, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2024
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    How helpful that the yellow wire leaving L27 pin 4 at the combination meter ends up a green wire where it meets the hazard switch, and a blue wire where it meets the brake actuator.
     
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  6. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Approaching a full-spectrum wire...
     
  7. Danno M

    Danno M New Member

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    Five
    Thank you so much for your helpful replies! These EWD snapshots are just what I assume I need. Thankfully I'm used to electrical schematics and wiring harnesses since designing and making harnesses is what I do for a job! I'm still pretty ignorant about what's going on in this system, so therein lies the problem. And the constant changing of wire color is still pretty obnoxious.

    I checked the battery, and assuming you mean the small 12V in the trunk, that one seems to be doing fine. I don't have a load tester, but I do have a DMM and the voltage doesn't sag under load to a worrying degree despite its age.

    I pulled the switch panel out of the dash, and with the battery still connected I see +5V between 3(gray) and 5(Black/white) on connector L57 and no short when the battery is unplugged. That leads me to believe that the fault is either in the combination meter, or in he section of harness connecting the combination meter to the "Skid Control ECU" which I assume is the official name for the computer on the Brake Booster Assembly. Does this sound right to you folks?

    rjparker, do you happen to have another EWD showing the connection between the Skid Control ECU and the combination meter? If you have a diagram showing its route through the car, that would be extremely helpful as well!
     
  8. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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  9. Danno M

    Danno M New Member

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    Five
    Update! After some more thinking, I realized that I'd made a rookie mistake. I unplugged the Brake Booster ECU again and hit the hazard switch and they went off. Sure enough the fault is inside the Brake Booster ECU. It turns out I have the same exact problem that is described in this post from 2021.

    I've temporarily circumvented the issue by clipping the sky blue wire on pin 10 of the harness. I could have tried to trace the connection all the way behind the dash to brake the connection somewhere more convenient like a connector, but I honestly just didn't feel like it.
    [​IMG]

    Once I plugged it back in, I can drive the car and use the turn signals again! If I get around to replacing the ABS module I can reconnect it with a splice. I might even try putting a diode or a high value resistor in there to keep whatever is going on inside the ECU from messing with the hazards.
     
  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Oh yeah, the GR is GRay. I said GReen. My bad.

    The junction connector L71 just has its pins 4, 5, and 6 bonded together, so the GRay wire at the switch and the Yellow wire at the meter and the bLue wire at the skid ECU should just all be at the same potential, willy nilly.

    You seem to have measured it at 5 volts away from ground.

    The meter should operate the flashers when that input is pulled down. Without signing in for a v repair manual, I am not sure at the moment whether its normal, not-pulled-down voltage is supposed to be 12 or 5.

    If it's supposed to be 12, then 5 could easily qualify as "pulled down" enough to make the flashers flash.

    If it's normally 5 (like a TTL level) then your measurement doesn't seem pulled down, and there would have to be more to the story somewhere.

    Can you back pin 4 out of the L27 connector, leaving all else as-is, and see if the flashers are going then? You could also measure the voltage at that meter pin, through the hole temporarily unoccupied by pin 4.