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High Coolant Temp warning after EGR cleaning

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Beeach, Sep 4, 2024.

  1. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    Big lurker here, so first off: Thank you all for all your insightful posts!

    I bought my 2010 Prius in 2019 with a little less than 100K on it. Later I read all about the head gasket problems for this car and I was determined to take good care of everything. I love my Prius.

    Previous weekend I finally did the 120K preventative maintenance with my son in law (female here), cleaning the throttle body, intake manifold, EGR valve and cooler, and PCV valve at 131K (I did the spark plugs last summer at 120K). The car is running fine but the coolant temp warning light came on right after that.

    Also, coincidentally, a tire pressure light because I had caught a nail in my left rear tire, as well as some codes with the Dr. Prius app, P0102 and some more, but these all eventually cleared on their own (and after disconnecting HV and 12V batteries for a reset) and I had the tire fixed.

    Of course, starting up the car with thls temp light on can't literally mean the coolant or engine temp is high because I know the engine is still cold. So I wasn't too worried and have been driving it for some 250 miles now, while checking the temps with my Hybrid Assistant app all along.

    Everything seems fine, car runs fine (I am seeing some improved mpg depending on how I drive) but the temp light didn't go away so I took it to the dealer today. I had to push for some immediate help so a "really good mechanic" came out 10 mins later. He held my fob near the power button and tried to clear some codes (I guess), opened the hood, then asked me to come listen to the gurgling in the engine coolant system hose near the engine coolant reservoir. He took of the cap off the reservoir and released some audible pressure. This was his quick diagnostic that there is air in the coolant system and it needs to be bled and/or flushed, hoping this will clear the temp light. Cost of flush is $230. Bleeding is less (but they couldn't tell me how much.... "because you don't know what else comes up.").

    I took it back home to weigh my options and ask you some questions. Yes, we lost some coolant fluid from the engine coolant system (and inverter system as well). We just filled up the engine coolant reservoir and thought any air would clear out of the inverter system.

    Do you have any thoughts on what we mighty have done wrong? Any suggestions of what is going on or what I can or should do?
     
    #1 Beeach, Sep 4, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2024
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  3. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    Thanks for the link! I would not have looked for that topic in my situation but I will read more on it. Dealer would do a bleed first, then flush if the bleed doesn't clear the code. I will go by my regular mechanic tomorrow to see what they think.
     
  4. douglasjre

    douglasjre Senior Member

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    In my best, motherly voice : " oh no! What did you do?"
     
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  5. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    Using Hybrid Assistant, what temperatures in the engine and hybrid system circuits did Hybrid Assistant report when the high temperature indicator was on the dashboard?
    You should have the data saved on your phone.
     
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  6. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    The engine coolant is around 197 at 70 mph, rarely if ever higher. This didn’t mean anything according to the mech. I am not sure if he was implying that the app shows a theoretical temp based on other data? There have been no signs of overheating. I have overheated 2 cars before in my life, I should be scared.
     

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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The temperature sensors in the Prius are what's called negative-temperature-coefficient thermistors. That means their electrical resistance changes with the temperature, and the resistance goes down as the temperature goes up.

    [​IMG]

    So if a sensor is left unplugged ('infinite' resistance) it will look like the coolant is very cold, and if its wires are somehow electrically shorted (low resistance) it will look like the coolant is very hot. So I would look for possible wiring damage / pinching or the like where the temperature sensors are connected.

    The gen 3 has two temperature sensors: one screwed into the cylinder head, and one in a hose fitting sort of above and behind the EGR cooler. The one in the cylinder head is the one most scan tools will be showing you as the "engine coolant temperature", so with what the app is showing you, that one looks ok.

    The one in the hose fitting is wired straight to the combination meter in the dash, and only an app that can read data from all ECUs in the car will be able to talk to the combination reader and show you what that is reading. I'd guess that's the one with the problem.

    More info on the two temperature sensors in this post.

    Toyota Techstream is one example of software that can show the live reading from the combination meter.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    Thanks everyone for the detailed info so far. I am going to drain the engine coolant tomorrow and see if that clears the light. If not, I am going to dive into the sensors, and will update this thread with the results. I really appreciate your guidance!
     
  9. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    The temperature of MG is highlighted in yellow on the temperature graph.
    This is a high abnormal temperature.
    Either there is no circulation in the inverter circuit, or there are problems with overheating of the MG
     
  10. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    For example, readings from my car.
    The engine temperature rises to 192°F, then is in these limits + -188°F
    The MG temperature does not rise to such a high level.
    It is around 130°F

     
  11. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    @MAX2 Thanks for sharing your chart. The MG temp following this EGR cleaning is actually better than it was back in February and in May, so I guess that's an improvement? I need to find out more about these temps. See attached.
     

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  12. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    I have to double-check which chart I uploaded earlier in this thread. That doesn't look like the right one. Below is the correct temp chart after EGR cleaning. Sorry for that confusion!

    Argh no, I am confusing these exports between my phone and laptop.
    The one I posted originally was correct, the one I just posted was a shorter trip, so the lower MG makes sense. My MG temp is always high then?
     

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    #12 Beeach, Sep 6, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2024
  13. MAX2

    MAX2 Member

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    The thing is that EGR is a system for the engine. It needs to be cleaned

    But MG is a hybrid unit.
    Let's call it conditionally (automatic variator gearbox) with an inverter circuit and a motor generator.
    Each of the two circuits has its own separate channels for coolant, filling tanks, its own pumps for pumping and its own radiators.
    You should check the condition of the hybrid coolant and system.
     
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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You've already written

    which, to me, sounds like a smoking gun for a sensor or sensor-wiring issue. I would look there before any coolant festivities.

    Do you have a scan tool that can display live data?
     
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  15. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    I have an OBD reader and use the Hybrid Assistant and Dr. Prius app.
    Since the mech said that there was air in the engine coolant, draining it seems the least I should do.
    Problem with the sensors is that it's more complicated :cautious: and I am only slowly learning how to read the Hybrid Assistant data.

    From my initial readings well before I posted this topic, I suspected the temp light had to do with the sensors and I purchased MAF sensor cleaner (I had code P0104 which now cleared). And another piece of info, I may have sprayed some brakleen on the sensor that sits on the manifold, not on the electronics but the exterior, but it may have gotten onto the electronics. :(

    If draining the coolant doesn't make the temp light go away, I will sure go into all the info you posted about the sensors, or I will take it to my mechanic and accept this as a lesson.

    I am also thinking about getting a 2nd (clean) egr cooler and swap it, because after more reading on the forum I think that I didn't clean mine well enough, so I have to do it again. It should go a lot faster though. :rolleyes:
     

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    #15 Beeach, Sep 6, 2024
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2024
  16. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Maybe ... assuming the mech was right about that. Trouble is, I've too often seen the phrase "you've got air in the system" used to mean "I have other customers with easier jobs than diagnosing your cooling system".

    Ok, but don't forget the old joke about the guy looking for his keys under the streetlight...

    Well, but "had to do with the sensors" doesn't mean just any sensors. The coolant temperature readings come from the coolant temperature sensors. The gen 3 engine only has two of those (and one of those, you've seen a not-suspicious reading from). Reading hot before the engine has even started is pretty clearly bogus (and also clearly too early to be influenced by any other kind of sensor changing how the engine runs).

    And one nice thing about diagnosing a thermistor sensor issue is that hardly ever does anything go wrong with a thermistor. Any bogus reading is oevrwhelmingly likely to be down to the wiring.
     
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  17. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    @ChapmanF Sooo, I had some time to look around while the oil is draining. Are we talking about this one?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yes.
     
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  19. Beeach

    Beeach Junior Member

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    :):):):):) My poor son-in-law....
    So grateful for your guidance!
     
  20. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You did plug that back in didn't you???