This guy can get 59mpg in a plain old Accord. Beat that, punk

Thanks for posting. That guy's awesome.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 6 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]371962[/snapback]</div>

cant argue with that since i do a slight amount of hypermiling in my Prius and average 62 mpg

 

I see that I have gotten involved in this topic without even posting. :blink:

Oh well.

I think I will chime in here.

My parents have a 2007 Yaris and they get 43mpg on the highway and average 39mpg on their normal every day commute to work. It is basically the same route I take to work everyday except theirs is a few miles shorter. They drive the car like any other car. I havnt taught them anything about hypermiling but i'm willing to bet I could push 50mpg out of it if I tried.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(theforce @ Jan 7 2007, 01:15 PM) [snapback]372124[/snapback]</div>

What prompted my remark quoted is someone last night declared a regualar (i.e. non-hybrid gas) car can't get 45mpg without hypermiling. Glad to hear this is not pushing the Yaris and that 50mpg is possible.

_________________________________

VaBeachPrius,

Sorry for the "slight". As it is, understating some of the hypermiling results still seems to get a few remarks heated enough to cook my grilled cheese sandwhich.

_________________________________

Justified redundant statement: Even a few hypermiling techniques can help for those that go over the speed limit:

- reach your cruising speed more slowly
- Look ahead to allow yourself to cruise as much as possible
- Avoid accelerations and braking as much as possible
- if you can go easy, the first couple of miles is the most critical


What Wayne is doing I don't expect many to do, but adopting a few things he does is reasonable.

________________________________

At some point, some of you will be driving on a spare or be in some kind of automotive emergency that you will want to take it easy. Note you fuel economy - you might be pleasantly suprised.

 

ok i admit to knowing nothing about a yaris but the point is... a hybrid will get better mileage and be cleaner doing it. there is simply too much congestion for most of us to consider optimal driving conditions.

one says their yaris CAN GET 42 mpg... that is wonderful. but a Prius CAN GET 70 mpg.

the question is can a yaris get that under most conditions including congested traffic??? i bet not. i really dont know. so maybe it can but i am betting it cant AND it will idle while doing it.

the Prius is a great HALF step in the direction we want to go because it gives the relatively good mpg figures to EVERYONE. doing 56 mpg in an ICE is great but when the same person does 113 mpg in a hybrid, what is the question here????

 

It appears as though everyone has had an ample opportunity to chime in, now comes the important part: ACTUAL CHANGE

The hypermilers can demonstrate all they want. But unless something actually results from that, the effort is basically pointless. If everyone has the ability to get much higher MPG from their existing vehicle, yet they don't bother, success has not been achieved. It's that simply. Goal not met.

To date, very little has come from hypermiling... despite the publicity. Of course, that would have been a miracle anyway. The masses simply are not going to accept the idea of driving slower. Many well-funded campaigns have tried and ended with very disappointing outcomes. The same is true with the proper tire inflation efforts, which ended in a mandate due to safety & liability problems from non-compliance.

Anywho, that's not the case for the support of the hybrids that strive for super-clean emissions and a substantial efficiency gain. Success from that effort is undeniable. Annual sales above 200,000 prove that. It is now a matter of how much more, rather than still trying to get attention.

So... what is the next step for the hypermilers? How will they make a difference?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 8 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]372747[/snapback]</div>

If you deny the significance of one individual's efforts, I'm afraid the point is entirely lost. As is the point of just about every other decision you or I make on a daily basis.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brick @ Jan 8 2007, 06:07 PM) [snapback]372768[/snapback]</div>

Deny? Huh? There have been over 200,000 downloads of the User-Guide. That's a very real, quantitative measure... something significant funneled through an individual.

Show me actual benefit of hypermiler's efforts so far, then their plans for growth to achieve large-scale acceptance.

MASS CHANGE is the point, a paradigm shift from the majority.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 8 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]372791[/snapback]</div>

Why do you lump all mpg-oriented drivers into the term 'hypermilers' and then assume they're some sort of activist group?

Here's one directly measurable positive effect that the 'hypermilers' had upon a single individual.
Me.:
--I owned a Porsche.
--I began thinking about another more sensible car.
--I found this website (and Prius Online, too).
--I read and learned, in part about hypermilers; decided they were too extreme for me but was inspired by their actions.
--I decided that if people were so passionate about something like this, I needed to check it out.
--I liked what I saw, and was intrigued by how thoughtful some of the hypermilers (and some of the 'plain old' posters) were, too.
--I sold the Porsche.
--I bought my Prius.
--I went from 20mpg to 50mpg, and from driving an emissions-challenged air-cooled car to something more responsible.

All of this aside, why can't you be happy with living up to your own standards, and not be so concerned about some sort of measurable change resulting?

After all, you're not aware of every consequence of your every action...right...? How do you know that the hypermilers *aren't* having an effect...even if no one here can prove it to your satisfaction.

Have faith.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 8 2007, 05:34 PM) [snapback]372747[/snapback]</div>

One could also use your rationale and call gym memberships useless because so few increase their their fitness or permanently reduce their weight - so just rely on liposuction.

Unlike you, I'm not going to diss a different type of hybrid - i.e. I'm not going to put down the Prius.

Most things in life worth getting require some effort. I see people in the gym on treadmills at pedestrian rates focusing on chatting on their cell phone. I see the same mentality with people racing on the freeways barely avoiding a collision, sometimes jumping multiple lanes yards before an exit on the phone. Maybe I slightly exaggerate some of the irresponible distracted driving, but there is still a lot of it. For both the person not really trying in the gym and the distracted driver - no personal effort. Good fitness, good driving, good finances, etc. requires some effort.

I suppose that hypermiling and gas rationing were worthless during World War II.

john1701a, several times it has been mentioned that there can be a happy medium between the typical aggressive driving and the kind of hypermiling Wayne does, yet choose to go for blood over a little bit of understanding. Wayne and the IMA to you is what that Great White Whale was to Capt Ahab, or more recently, how all hybrids is to Art Spinella of CNW . It consumes you. I'm believing you would pass on attacking gas guzzlers for Wayne. No forgiveness for Wayne making peace with the Prius and seriously considering getting the Prius III.

You seem oblivious how bad it looks making such personal attacks on Wayne. If this were face-to-face at a place like Hybridfest, I seriously doubt you say these things in front of every body - particularly if Wayne was present and the people that actually know him. This leads to the underpracticed netiquette - don't post what you would never say in person.

That's about all I can say to you - nobody can prevent you from embarrassing yourself further.

 

John, with all due respect:

Pinto Girl and particularly DeltaFlyer sound to me - dead on.

I could add a lot more to what those two people stated, but I'll pass... They were just that good.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Jan 8 2007, 07:56 PM) [snapback]372827[/snapback]</div>

But none have answered the question yet! Based on what we've heard so far, the scope is very small and the criteria is extremely vague.

WHAT ARE THE GOALS?

Mention something that we can very specifically measure, like a SULEV rating for emissions.

This shouldn't be so hard. It's really easy to be objective, constructive, and impartial with well defined goals. But some continue to avoid that detail. That's definitely not productive. In fact, it's actually a rather effective undermining technique.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 8 2007, 09:16 PM) [snapback]372802[/snapback]</div>

If there's one thing that years of John1701 postings should tell you, it's that it's either his way or no way. HSD or nothing. IMA is just not an option in his world.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Delta Flyer @ Jan 8 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]372802[/snapback]</div>

Delta Flyer,

There are two types of aggressiveness. Active and Passive. Those gas guzzling speeders that you dislike are the Active Agreessors. And then, there are the opposite types like Wayne (sorry to generalize) are the Passive Aggressors. Both types are extremists. It seems you are ok with the passive aggressors.

This post is not a personal attack against Wayne at all. The issue is with preaching and bragging about the aggressiveness behaviors. I admire achievement of drag racers and extreme hypermilers but they are not what I want to become. They are good at what they do and just leave it at that (maybe for entertainment as well).

HSD allows general public to get great milage and low emission without hypermiling effort. I always visioned that was the goal -- increasing effency without scraficing anything (maybe inital cost but mass production negates it) using technological advancements. HSD has done it and maybe e-flex can one day also.

Dennis

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jan 8 2007, 08:45 PM) [snapback]372849[/snapback]</div>

John, I will admit that I too have a very personal interpretation of what the goals are. As most, I often try to validate my convictions by engaging in dialog here and there and along the way learn an additional thing or two if I can. In the end, my desire is to have my personal goals converge with that of as many people as possible. While still representing a compromize, to me, that also represents maximum impact in my contribution as an individual to a common collective goal. For it to be so, I cannot affort to be overly idealistic because then I stop being effective.

I am not going to entertain you with a specific answer relating to emission standards as you are asking, because quite frankly, while a AT-PZEV (or better) rating would be nice for all cars on the road it is simply not going to happen anytime soon. This is where Wayne and other hypermilers come in. For me any progress is good progress as long as we keep moving forward at a pace that is inclusive of as many people as possible. That includes people who do not or cannot yet afford to drive a hybrid vehicle.

Having said so, I don't think anyone has the moral authority to mandate a set of goals for everyone else to follow. At least in my eyes, I do not think even Wayne has earned that right nor would he want it. But to some extent most of us can suggest and seek an agreement though some hopefully "inclusive" dialog.

It is on this basis that I woud humbly submit the following for open discussion, refutal or enhancement as an awnser to your question (What are the goals?):

-To polute and consume less... and whenever possible encourage as many people to do so as well.
-To embrace and promote technologies that represent a measurable amount of progress. Of course, the greater the progress the better, as long as it remains within reach to most. Extreme examples may apply.
-To identify problems and issues that through debate in a public forum get exposed and hopefully subsequently resolved for the benefit of as many as possible.
-To applaud and support ANY effort or initiative that constitutes a safe and beneficial solution to a current problem, no matter how small or improbable its perceived success.

How about that? They are still vague and not optimal for everyone, right?
But in my view, they almost address the root of the problem which consistently seems to divide us: This counter productive bias and elitism that it is "either this way or no way", HSD or nothing, Black or White.
If we fail at get united on principles larger than ourselves and that of our aging possessions then we've already lost the battle. For me, it is that simple.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

John:

Like Tony (and presumably many others), I have incredible respect for your work and time to educate real and would-be Prius owners. I have downloaded much material from your site, and I have found it invaluable. I appreciate what you've done.

I've often silently sided with you in your debates with others here, notably Johnnycat26. But I have to agree with him, Tony, and others here: You come across as, "It's my way or the highway." I appreciate your passion, but how you communicate it goes a long way with how -- or even whether -- your message is received. If you expect to sway more people, I ask you to consider your tone. I suspect many turn you off as an unyielding zealot. That's unfortunate, given what you have to offer.

Wayne is passionate too. But there is a decidely different tone to how he communicates it. I don't fully agree with either of you, but I am more apt to listen to him.

Please consider what others are trying to tactfully tell you. Sadly, I suspect you won't. I suspect I'll read on your blog later how this is yet another series of personal attacks on you. And that will hurt your cause even further.