Prius Pratfall

Some people have had better success backing the prius up. I forget what the reason was, but maybe you can search for it.

Have you considered other hybrids like the Ford Escape HYBRID or the Toyota Highlander. Both come in 4WDs. I'm partial to the Highlander as it almost match the Escape's MPG and is a lot larger (it's also a rocket ship). While they don't have the mileage of the prius (or other 2WD sedans) they still do quite well.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 5 2007, 06:33 PM) [snapback]371555[/snapback]</div>

Two words: Snow Tires.

No 2wd car is going to make it up a "steep, unpaved, snow-packed 1/4 mile long driveway" with all season tires. Snow tires make all the difference.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(R32 @ Jan 5 2007, 07:12 PM) [snapback]371569[/snapback]</div>

Yup. I've driven all kinds of cars in the snow. FWD, RWD, AWD, occasionally no-WD...they are all a disaster if you don't have a good set of snow tires. And let's be honest, the Integrity's that come stock on the Prius are about the farthest thing from a snow tire.

What the OP learned is not that the Prius sucks in the snow, but that its tires are precisely wrong for winter driving.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(brick @ Jan 5 2007, 07:47 PM) [snapback]371578[/snapback]</div>

I agree that the tires are the biggest reason but the TC factor cannot be overlooked. I love my car but when I ran into the same problem last weekend my heart sank a little and it took a little of the shine off my Prius. I would recommend this car to anybody except somebody in Fidelma's situation. I can live with it in the occasional snow we get in urban New England but remote CO is altogether different.

The Matrix comes in 4wd. I was getting ~30mpg in my AT 2wd Matrix before upgrading to the Prius. The 4wd version is only available in a manual which should offset some of the hit you will take by having the 4wd tranny. Certainly better than the 4 Runner.

 

I am in total agreement with the previous posters regarding Snow Tires.

You must have them if you drive in snow and ice conditions. Traction control is almost useless... unless you have good rubber to make it work. And to put it mildly, the OEM tires are the lowsiest tires for optimal traction in the extreme winter conditions we drive in.

Also a vehicle with 4 wheel (or all wheel) drive will do very little for you if it does have not good winter tires either.

I find the Prius can be an awesome winter car provided that we have resonable expections of its OEM equipment.


Cheers;

MSantos

 

I've always felt very comfortable driving the Prius in the snow. Never tried to get it up a driveway like that though.

I think you've hit on a major limitation of the Prius' TRAC system in the snow. It won't allow ANY wheelspin, for good reason as its dangerous for the hybrid system. Wheelspin however is an important component of being able to get a vehicle up a hill like that in the snow. I don't know that snow tires will help...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Jan 6 2007, 08:10 AM) [snapback]371680[/snapback]</div>

Snow tires is everything, TRAC control or not. Friction on driving wheels and dead weight on non-drivers is just basic physics. Traction control surely helps, but does not work magic.


Making it up snowy hills takes some speed, and if the driveway's curvature and general surface quality does not permit gaining some momentum at the bottom of the hill, you'll need a 4WD anyway.


Other than that, this is my first PriusChat message, and winters in southern Norway are not what they used to be. No snow, just fog and wet, icy roads.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 5 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]371555[/snapback]</div>

We own homes in CA as well as MT ... which as I remember, is farther NORTH than colorado? Yes. BTW, we are NOT the only prius owners in the Flathead valley. So it's too bad your sales person was such a dufus. In any event, the Prius will do just as well in snow & ice as any other car, if it is equiped properly (we find studs - legal in MT work the best). That being said, our other car IS AWD ... IS a high mileage auto, and IS big and is still a hybrid ... the RX-400h. Even so, as others stated above, the car WILL match other 2 wheel drive cars ... but NO 2 wheel drive car will beat a snowcat, so if your on the side of an ice coverd/ 15% grade, what are you gona do.

 

The OP hit on one of the few faults of the Prius. While snow tires would most likely take care of the problem, chains even more so, there ARE a time or two when the ability to disable the traction control needs to be available. Positrac would have helped me tremendously last weekend when I got stuck in the mud at the side of the road. Luckily a couple of brutes came along and pushed me out.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sleeper @ Jan 6 2007, 05:08 AM) [snapback]371700[/snapback]</div>

I agree, my comment was that the traction control is so hyper sensitive to wheelspin I bet he'd still be stuck even with snow tires.

 

I would just like to add, that after coming back from South Dakota visiting the future mother inlaw, I have a better respect for AWD/4WD vehicles. There are clearly occasions where the Prius is not the right choice for certain owners. There was snow on the ground, we pulled over to get the mail and had to active the 4WD on the truck to get going again. Did I say truck? Yep, she owns a small ranch with horses. Sadly, you cannot tow a horse trailer with a Prius or put more than one bail of hay in the back.

I guess what I would like to say, is that there are occasions where the Prius is not a viable option. In this case, we should commend the person for trying it out.

Enjoy the RAV4, that is a nice ride.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Porridge @ Jan 7 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]372010[/snapback]</div>

Very true. And things may get even nicer. A hybrid RAV4 is due in 2008, at least in Europe, the story goes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 6 2007, 08:40 AM) [snapback]371719[/snapback]</div>

I wouldn't go that far. Most auto's that have TC have the ability to turn it off if needed.

Also again on the tires. Better tires means more grip. More grip means TC kicks in less often.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 5 2007, 04:33 PM) [snapback]371555[/snapback]</div>

Try that again with appropriate winter tires, and/or try that with any other front wheel drive with narrow all season tires.

I drive up 8% snow-packed grade regularly with no problem as easily with our 4wd.

If snow-pack happens a large number of days out of the year for you, the next best gas mileage alternative is a small subaru.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 5 2007, 06:33 PM) [snapback]371555[/snapback]</div>

My choices there would be CRV, RAV4, or Subaru, in roughly that order, assuming a small SUV is OK. If you must have a sedan, then Subaru is about it, but VW and Audi have some AWD models.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 7 2007, 02:01 PM) [snapback]372096[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I'd have to agree with the Subaru. Never owned one, but the lion's share of AWD high mileage vehicles we see in MT would most likely be the Subaru.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 7 2007, 04:05 PM) [snapback]372196[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, I've got an '03 WRX, get 26mpg in the city with it, even though it's only rated at 20mpg.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 5 2007, 06:33 PM) [snapback]371555[/snapback]</div>

I had a lot of "funny" pratfalls my first winter with my 2004 Prius:

http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=5047&hl=

Not sure what happened to Robinredbreast though ...

With proper winter tires, you should be fine. The condo association finally allowed us to use studded tires this winter, and I'm running Goodyear Nordic from Canadian Tire. In the EU it's called Goodyear Ultra Grip 500

http://eu.goodyear.com/home_en/tires/repos...p?page=benefits

Even compared to the studless Dunlop Graspic DS-2 and Yokohama Ice Guard 10, the studded Nordic offers as much an improvement again in snow/ice traction as the studless tires did over my Michelin Harmony "all season" tires.

We had a blizzard Dec 30-Jan 1 and got 22 inches of snow. I finally managed to get stuck at the hobby farm in deeply rutted snow, but was able to eventually get free. In fresh snow no problems. On glare ice at intersections, and black ice on the highway, no problems either.

In any area with "real" winter conditions, run studded snow tires.

I wish you had a camcorder running when the salesjerk couldn't get up the steep driveway. That would have been priceless.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jan 7 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]372196[/snapback]</div>

A few folks at the office own 2003 and newer Outbacks, Forresters, etc and just love them. No problems with them and fairly good fuel economy for an awd vehicle.