To Prius or not to Prius

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 4 2007, 07:45 PM) [snapback]370990[/snapback]</div>

Hi Fidelma,

I cannot comment on the in-snow driving suprisingly, its been like April here for the past month. The one day we had a storm, (Dec 1), it was so bad and so predicted the whole city and suburbs just shut down for the day, and stayed in over the weekend. By monday, roads were clear and mostly dry. Maybe some of the east coast guys in CT (very hilly) can comment. They tend to talk about snow-tires being a must.

The Prius is pretty impressive on the highway, 40 to 50 mpg from 80 to 65 mph, but still, it does even better in town. For a car the size of the Prius, 40 mpg at 80 mph is pretty impressive. Just in pulse and glide around town one can see 60 to 100 mph in the right conditions.

A new-technology Diesel may very well suit you however. Your driving pattern is good for a Diesel. The Diesel will do all right in-town, as the Diesel does not have a throttle valve, it controls engine RPM by the amount of fuel injected. So, the engine does not need to suck against the throttle valve in partial power situations. And Diesels idle at very low fuel consumption rates.

The only Diesel issue (according to my ex-russian mechanical engineer boss) is the below 0 F starting.

Being in Colorado, you may not have as much below 0 F weather there than here (depending on where you are in Colorado). If you have a heated garage, this is probably a non-issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 4 2007, 06:45 PM) [snapback]370990[/snapback]</div>

During our one storm in Chicago this season I drove the car up and down the alley first to test the breaking on snow (got up to 20, slammed on the brakes). It stopped just fine. We basically parked it on ice after that every day for about a week or two until it rained and melted the compacted ice off. I actually find our highway mileage better than our start and stop city; can get over 50 mpg highway (42 if going 80 mph) and average 44 mpg in Chicago rush hour. The snow concern I would have is that the car bottom clearance is not particularly high; if you're living on unpaved back roads you might want to see if a dealer will let you test drive one there. It appears to be a good time to buy a Prius at the moment, with cars on lots and little or no wait time and under MSRP selling prices.

I used to live outside of Boulder, CO, with a horrid, steep dirt u-turning driveway that pretty much required you had 4WD in the winter to make it up (and even then, we still inevitably got the then Subaru stuck 1-2 times a winter and had to pull it out with a come-a-long). We completely adore our Prius, but I'm not sure I'd be able to have one in that house.

 

I don't know how things are in Colorado, but what nobody talks about is the cost of Diesel vs. Gas. Here in Salt Lake, Diesel is 60 cents a gallon more expensive.

Not to mention that your friends "new" Jetta is a 2006, and is not a low polluting car. It's aweful in fact. It scores a 1 out of 10. That is terrible. So terrible that Volkswagon isn't selling any Diesels in their 07's until they clean up their act in 08. The car she has also rates at 41 mpg highway. Lets look at this logically.

41 mpg Jetta
50 mpg Prius (this is what I actually get on the freeway, not the rating).

Cost to go 500 miles
Jetta 12.19 gals at 2.84 per gal = 34.62
Prius 10 gals at 2.24 = 22.40

I haven't even begun to talk about the particulate issues associated with Diesel.

I live in Salt Lake. My Prius handles as well as my Subaru Outback in the snow. I would imagine it performs just as well as the Jetta, or any other front wheel drive automobile.

Edit-

I almost forgot to mention that the Jetta is a compact and the Prius is a Midsize car. Also in one case you are buying a Toyota and in the other a Volkswagon. Take that for whatever it's worth.

 

Hi Fidelma:

I live in the mountains as well. Maybe not as steep as yours however. We have had a couple of good snows this year, although the "real" snows dumped on colorado before they got here (thank goodness).....I live at the top of a 1/2 mile long dirt/gravel drive that is rather steep (I can't ride my bike up it in the summer time, maybe 1/2 way). In the snows we've had my Prius has done very well. We also have a four wheel drive vehicle, as most people here do. Guarantgeed there will be times when the snow and weather will prohibit even front wheel drive vehicles here and 4x4 will be required. Actually, those are really time when I just like to stay home if that's an option.

Good luck with your decisions. I'm still very excited about my Pruis, the mileage, the partial zero emission rating, and all the technology contained in the car. I just upgraded to a blue tooth phone and now my car answers the phone and calls people for me..... I just think that's Great!!!! Best wishes.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 4 2007, 02:45 PM) [snapback]370990[/snapback]</div>

There have been complaints posted in the past by members who were unable to drive up steep icy driveways due to the activation of the traction control under those conditions.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jan 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]371029[/snapback]</div>

This is my concern, as well, although I'm in CA and only reporting secondhand what I've read here on PC.

The traction control can be a little too effective at times (I can vouch for this), to the point where it won't allow much power at all to get to the front wheels.

Also, I've read that it won't permit you to rock the car (although I thought this can cause damage; again, I'm not sure). But someone said that a workaround was to floor the throttle, according to them power will be transferred back and forth between the front tires(?), which seemed to help them gain momentum

I'm a little concerned about your being able to reliably get up that driveway of yours. Perhaps you might rent one and see how it does? Other than that, I'm quite happy with my '06. it's got lots of room, the heat comes on quickly and the wipers work well, I LOVE the tall and narrow shape of the car (good visibility in traffic and she'll squeeze through some tight spots once you figure out where the edges of the car lie). I've not driven the Jetta, but German cars, generally, scare me maintenance-wise (I'm Porsche-free and glad of it).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 4 2007, 06:23 PM) [snapback]371037[/snapback]</div>

I agree, best way to tell is to try it. Just make sure to see what tires are on the rental if you do test it. And make sure they are inflated properly.

 

Check out Consumer Reports reliability ratings before buying. Although I'm not sure specifically about the the Jetta, Volkswagen does not have a particularly good record of reliability.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 4 2007, 03:45 PM) [snapback]370990[/snapback]</div>

VW requires very special and expensive motor oil to not void the warranty. I considered TDIs until I saw that, build quality and emissions - very bad. Engines do last a long time however.

We drive up > 8% grades in the winter with the prius on plowed but packed roads easily with snow tires. TRAC and VSC makes the Prius handle exceptionally well on snowpack. High centering is another issue. If you have deeper snow, low clearance vehicles like the Prius don't do well. Maybe Jetta would have the same problem? Prius has great crash ratings with air bags. Diesel will not warm up as fast as your Prius and a block heater I'm told. Prius with a block heater will net you considerably better winter mileage.

I recommend you take the time to test drive each car in conditions you're likely to face. All the speculation and opinion in the world won't replace your own realistic testing.

Please let us know, and good luck!

 

I seriously considered a Jetta TDI until I found out about the abysmal reliability and expensive maintenance/repairs. At the EPA website, which gives you cost per mile, the hybrid Camry was actually slightly cheaper to run than a Jetta TDI. The other thing I didn't like about the Jetta was the 0-60 time. I don't drive fast but I'd like to at least have the option... What was also strange was that a car built upon relatively new technology (HSD) was more reliable than one built on old tech (diesel).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Jan 4 2007, 07:13 PM) [snapback]371029[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, what Pinto Girl said. We ran into the Traction Control issue last weekend. We had no problem with momentum up hills and while driving around but from a dead stop on a slick road we were almost left stranded if not for the help of 4 people pushing. No more putting the hammer down and rockin' and wagglin' your way out of an icy spot. I just upgraded my tires because of this (and posted about it) but in your situation I would factor in the additional need for a set of snow tires and steel rims.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squint @ Jan 4 2007, 09:00 PM) [snapback]371091[/snapback]</div>

My previous car was a Mitsubishi 3000GT SL. I've had the 2006 Prius Blue for almost a year now and couldn't be any happier with it. It my not have the "punch", but, in these times I don't really think you
need it anymore. The running gear is fantastic. I luv the CVT transmission and fuel economy. If at all possible, you must give this car some serious consideration. Have a nice day in "snowy" Colorado. Only little traces of snow here in Minnesota.

 

The Prius is a front-wheel-drive car and has fairly low ground clearance. That said, it handles on ice better than most other cars. If you presently drive a 4WD to get up your driveway, you might want to stick with 4WD. But if you've managed up to now with a 2WD car, the Prius will do just fine.

While the Prius can get better mileage in the city, it still gets excellent mileage on the highway. Some people have the misconception that the Prius only gets good mileage because and when it can shut off the engine. In fact, the presence of the electric motors allows the Prius to have a small and efficient gas engine (since the electric motors can provide torque when needed). This makes the Prius extrremely efficient both in the city and on the highway.

The Prius is much more reliable than the VW. And even low-sulpher diesel creates tons of particulate emissions. Unless you go bio-diesel, a Prius is much easier on the environment.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Jan 4 2007, 06:27 PM) [snapback]371001[/snapback]</div>

How is Prius braking/stoppingany different than any other car that one would want to go 20 MPH and "slam" on the brakes? The car stops like any other car I have owned (50+cars BTW.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Fidelma @ Jan 4 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]370990[/snapback]</div>

Snow tires make a world of difference when driving on snow and ice. Get a set of 4 and be happy!

I am a noob, I bought my 2007 Prius 3 days ago, but driving in the Laurel Mountians and out the Turn Pike on shake down runs I am impressed. My first fill up was 7gal at 300.4mi. for 43mpg! It is interesting to see how mileage varies according to all factors of driving. Hopped in the RAV4 last night and what a difference to drive a non-hybrid and a bore.

Last and most important, 200mi to a VW dealer coupled with the notorious VW reliability issues, should have you driving a Toyota. I looked into a TDI Jetta 2yrs ago and found that the engines had some problems, but were pretty reliable, the rest of the car was crappy. 200mi to the VW dealer! I like to call Diesel Fuel: Super Super Diesel Fuel because of the high price, that is set there I am told because of the 15-20% better economy of Diesel engines. Who said that Big Oil should take this profit, I don't know?

 

Our 2007 Touring Prius did better than our 1990 Volvo 240 Wagon here in Denver these last two weeks.

Oh yea, buy the way - IT'S SNOWING AGAIN IN DENVER............

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cairo94507 @ Jan 5 2007, 09:22 AM) [snapback]371190[/snapback]</div>

That's the only experience I could relate because it hasn't snowed that much in Chicago this winter and I was limited in time to doing a quick test before Megan drove it to work in the morning. I would have loved to test it at 40 mph but didn't have opporturnity to get anywhere where doing so would have been safe. The braking experience is certainly equivalent to a Surbaru Outback I owned before the Prius (although I won't be driving the Prius into snowbanks to park like I did the Outback). But I can say with certainty the Prius stopped a whole lot better than the 65 Chevy Nova I first drove.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sl7vk @ Jan 4 2007, 06:29 PM) [snapback]371003[/snapback]</div>

It's amazing how much my wife's Prius has improved the gas mileage of my aquaintances' cars. Seems like I don't know anybody who doesn't claim to get at least 40 MPG now. At the minimum, check out the EPA rating at:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/bymakemodelNF.shtml

For what it's worth, my experience with VW products has been mediocre at best. Never buy a new VW product -- it takes them a while to get the bugs out.