My Project Lithium Battery Caught Fire

@08Tahoe please contact [email protected] for any issue, I know @mudder is trying his best to defame my business but helping him won't do any good to your warranty, we will announce the new product on July 4th, be nice and stay tune please.

 

So exciting and can not wait for it!!!!!

 

trying his best to defame my business but helping him won't do any good to your warranty,

That kind of stuff grinds my gears....

Well, then grow a set of balls and defend yourself. What has been lies and what has not? You can clearly state it here, no arguments, just facts. When you start your defamation lawsuit you can use it as a reference. If not, then you and your mini-me stfu about defamation and libel, and maybe think twice about which direction that defamation/libel may actually be going. Saying those words over and over again doesn't make it real. And if it's not real, but you're accusing someone of it...who is really being defamed and libeled?

I'm curious, does your warranty paperwork require being nice? Isn't a warranty a contract? Paid for as part of the original purchase? If I bought a product from you and you tried pulling that "be nice or it will affect your warranty", I'd do everything I could to drag your *** straight to court, and I'd be talking **** to you the entire time.

Do you remember the warnings @2k1Toaster (a member with significant battery manufacturing experience) gave you about lithium batteries in this application and he was given hell about it? Did it end up that his warnings were accurate?

 

Defamation law requires that the statement in question be false. Truth is a complete defense to a defamation claim, meaning that if the statement is true, it cannot be considered defamatory, regardless of how damaging it might be to someone's reputation.

It's telling that your only response to date fails to refute even a single claim I've made.
Please let me know which part of my analysis is incorrect.

I intend to review your V3 hardware when it ships. If it is in fact a safe design:
-you should have no reservations sending me a test unit, and;
-I will review said unit fairly, and;
-if I don't review it fairly, then you can sue me for defamation.

For now, my product analysis applies to the products you're shipping today. Specifically, your V2.8 hardware - which you've shipped to thousands of customers - fails to meet even the most basic safety standards. Lithium traction batteries should adhere to SIL2, whereas you're treating it like a software startup... "ship early, ship often" doesn't work when the failure mode is potentially catastrophic. I'm worried you might actually think that shipping (potentially) safe V3.0 hardware somehow negates your existing product's shortcomings?

Absolutely wild that your only response so far doesn't address even a single product safety issue I've discussed.

 

To my knowledge, everything I've said is true... pretty easy to make that claim, as it's my modus operandi.

So far nobody has challenged anything I've said... but I'd certainly consider any valid "mudder is wrong" claim.

Jack probably understands he doesn't have a valid legal claim.

On the other hand, I do have a valid defamation claim against Jack, who has made several false claims in private regarding my technical capabilities and professional reputation. Were I to take Jack to court (I don't intend to for now), I would surely win on the merits. My last contact with Jack was to politely inform him to cease and desist.

 

@mudder

That is funny someone making claims is saying everything he said is true.

It is not what you think you know it is what you can prove.

In a court case, there would be third parties that YOU the plaintiff would have to pay to test out your theory.

They would not just take your word for it.

They would however take a look at the third party platforms that have been used to slander and libel the defendant and you would lose your case.

Make sure to have all your documents in order proving your credentials.

Dont forget to do the test on the soother, where you said it violates safety code and that it would not disconnect the power when the safety plug is removed.

See if you can get a prius loaned to you so that you can actually prove what you are claiming and make sure to record it all in one take if possible.

Show the soother in place and have a voltage reader and do the whole process of showing it does what you are claiming.

Then after that do the other claim where you start the car without the safety plug in place and the soother cant handle it.

Then once the v3 comes out and a customer actually wants you to look at their purchase and open it all up, you can record another video of your thoughts and theory.

The audacity to ask for a free pack from Jack to test and bash is absurd.

Maybe pay another bounty and get the goods like you did before from unknown sources.

Seriously you are reaching and should take a step back and choose your words wisely.

Anything and everything can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Know your place and stay in your lane.

Seems like all you have on your mind is to come to priuschat and solely attack Jack

But that is to be expected from a potential competitor who has not posted anything about their future products on priuschat or even pictures of a prototype for that matter.

Good luck...

 

Just the fact that the earlier models need replacement…

 

I leave it to a scientific third party (i.e. not you) to evaluate my claims.

I would probably be the defendant in said case, but regardless:
-Yes both sides would likely hire independent EEs to verify our claims.
-I'd be surprised if Jack could get an EE to invalidate any claim I've made.

The "have to pay" part is irrelevant to me. I have the fortunate position that my principals nearly always outweigh fiscal prudence. To whit, I presently intend to sue the state of Tennessee regarding their new $100 registration fee for hybrid vehicles. My vehicle doesn't meet the state's legal 'hybrid' definition, and yet they will not renew my registration without paying said $100 fee. Instead, I've already written a $20,000 retainer to argue this case... and it's worth it, because I'm a principled man who doesn't care about money anymore. Some people call it "f!@# you" money... whatever it is, it sure is fun to have a great legal team.

Correct. Clarification: 'They' means the jury, and juries tend to have very little appetite for dangerous products.

I disagree with this statement, but of course that's up for the jury to decide.

I keep all my notes, and also all the hardware I test. I suppose I could dig up my diploma, as well of the diplomas of all my expert witnesses. $600/hour is nothing when you know your analysis is ultimately correct... and that the plaintiff will ultimately foot the bill after my anti-SLAPP countersuit.

Please post Signal Soother comments in the correct thread.
I will reply to them there (and have ignored them here).
Note that I filmed the video prior to reading your post (that I'm replying to now). When I filmed it, I hadn't yet heard back from anyone (including you) regarding how I should test it. I chose benchtop testing, as I don't own a Prius. Please feel free to repeat the tests I proposed in your car with your Signal Soother.

I've already stated my intent to test the V3 hardware, once I get my hands on it.

I hadn't intended to receive the pack for free. I was merely asking Jack to provide me one for testing (I would pay full price). However:
-I don't need the entire pack... just one NexCell module, but;
-I don't even need the NexCell module... just the circuit board inside, but;
-I don't even need the circuit board inside, just the schematic (in b4 "BuT tHeN YoUd StEaL tHe DeSiGn").

If Jack doesn't provide any of the above (his choice), yes this is how I'll procure the pack/module/PCB.

I tend to take steps forward, but to each their own.
I always choose my words wisely, and understand I'm responsible for my actions.

Note that the legal system doesn't intimidate me one iota... my legal staff is large and well funded. A few years ago my startup spent around five million dollars in legal fees, which was annoying, but we did ultimately win, so there's that. Not sure how many people here on priuschat have argued SCOTUS cases, but my legal team will be doing so again next year.

However, I doubt the merits of any case Jack brings would actually go to court; we'd likely prevail in our motion to dismiss, as such a case would clearly lack any merit.

Checks notes: mudder is an EE specializing in power conversion designs. Certainly 'feels' like my lane, but what do I know?

I've certainly spent more time than I'd care to replying to your asinine comments.

You know this is false, given that I created a post outlining my product intent, which you replied to (and then got your replies deleted because you can't play nice). And of course, I've already addressed the "no pictures" aspect, but will repeat it again: I don't yet have a prototype... what would I point the camera at?

Thanks!

 

@mudder

Like I said good luck

 

Like I said, Thanks!
Looking forward to sending you my prototype hardware, once it exists. You can even test it with your NexCell LFP modules, if for some reason you don't want to use NMC.

I wonder who is looking forward to Jack's V3 design more:
-you, who seems to think the existing V2.8 design doesn't have any shortcomings, or;
-me, who is highly skeptical that the V3 design will fix the numerous issues I've outlined previously. I'm particularly interested in decompiling the firmware (if it exists) in order to verify the code within.

Reminder: My primary motivation here is safety. If NexCell ultimately ships a safe battery management system, I will gladly report those findings... and until then, I will report safety concerns. That's fundamentally why I'm doing this (in b4 "bUt YoUr A cOmPeTiToR").

 

Have you had any leads on getting your hands on V3 from anyone?

The V3 release video dropped today and it seems... interesting. I'm curious to see if they've improved any of the safety concerns you've talked about in your vids. If Jack & Team deliver a safe and viable alternative to Toyota for battery replacements, it's better for all Prius owners. Seems... Odd to have it split into V3 and V3 GT for.... heavy duty applications? I don't know why you wouldn't just pick the better of the two during development and make one variant, but what do I know

 

Are you offering? If so, send me a PM and we can discuss.
I'll place an order directly with NexCell as soon as V3 is offered for sale, but I doubt Jack will actually ship me the product.

FYI: I've contacted @jacktheripper directly asking for a review unit (that I would pay full price for). I will post an update is he chooses to send one. If his V3 design is good, I don't understand why he would withhold a review unit. Regardless, one way or another, I will certainly obtain a V3 unit in due time.

I agree. You can read my initial reactions here. Looks like this is the main V3 discussion thread.

Sodium ion is inherently safer, but unless they've added a proper BMS you could still experience violent cell venting (e.g. if a cell gets too full, but the car keeps charging the pack). I agree that the overall goal is to provide a better battery replacement for all Prius owners. I'll need to wait until I have some hand on time with the hardware before I can decide if NexCell V3 is that solution.

As I discussed in my "initial reactions" thread, this was the biggest head scratcher I had, too.

 

Ah thank you, I didn't see those threads.

Unfortunately not, it's just a bit too much money for me to shell out without knowing if the product is good or not. I hope you get your hands on one ASAP though, a proper analysis would give me confidence, but even then I'll probably wait until they're out for at least a bit to see how general QC is, early failure rates, etc.

Yep this is what I really want to see

Yeah.... I'd like more information on the GT vs Non-GT and why one or the other even exists in the first place. Seems like a very odd move to have two completely different module formats, with (at least at initial glance) completely different service and operational characteristics, and for a minimal price difference?

 

I will pay you (or anyone else that offers) the entire purchase price, plus a $500 bounty for your time facilitating the transaction. Ideally @jacktheripper would send me a unit directly, but I don't believe that's an option (I'll put an order in, but we'll see). I'm 100% serious.

I will probably destructively test QTY1 cell/stick/module. But afterwards I'd have n-1 (e.g. QTY13) modules left over that I would send back (if you want them). I don't want (or need) multiple NexCell packs wasting away in my outdoor UXO shelter.

Given my past criticism, I would think that @jacktheripper would want my 'blessing' that a product he sells is safe. Imagine the (hypothetical) scenario where I get a V3 pack and my youtube video is "yes, this is safe". I suspect Jack thinks I will give a bad review no matter how good his product is... that's simply not true. If Jack makes a safe product, I will call a spade a spade.

Unfortunately, the "wait and see" game might have you waiting several years. Whether or not the V3 design is safe and reliable, I think you are wise to wait. Commercial Na-ion technology is cutting edge; buying now makes you an early adopter.

I absolutely agree. I strongly encourage @jacktheripper to reconsider selling the 'non-GT' V3 variant. It just doesn't make sense at the stated $1500 & $1800 price points. The messaging is "buy this inferior product for $1500, or but this superior product for $1800". I'm buying the $1800 product every single time. Hopefully the rationale is made clear in Jack's yet-to-be-released video.

 

Yep, I can wait a couple of years, my home rebuilds and cheap core packs could even keep me going for many years if need be. I truly hope Jack and his team have done this correctly, especially having learned from past... issues and criticism. Even if they've done this correctly, I'm not terribly familiar with Na-Ion batteries to know how they perform in this application, plus supplier quality variance, and all the other variables that happen when selling a consumer product like this.... I'll wait until these are out in the wild for at least a year or two to see how they're holding up

 

Before I designed the LiBCM lithium replacement for the Honda Insight, I did the same for years...
...I once passed a state inspection and then got a check engine light as I was leaving the inspection station. My NiMH battery was beyond hosed the day I yanked it out and installed the first LiBCM prototype in my car. I never looked back.

I agree. As an added bonus, if Jack's product is safe and reliable, I won't have any reason to design LiBSU. I don't mind bowing out of the Prius market if an existing competitor is offering a safe alternative. I've got plenty of other projects to work on.

Spoilers: Nobody knows how long these 1st-gen commercial automotive Na-ion batteries will last. It's the bleeding edge. BYD is the biggest automotive player with an Na-ion vehicle. Maybe in a few years NexCell will have historical data to stand on. Maybe they already do (e.g. from suppliers with NDA agreements)?

 

Yesterday @Stencil_Box publicly disclosed that their "NexCell V2.5 caught fire", too (see post#214 here).
I have invited them to post more details regarding that thermal event in this thread, since it is more on topic here.

 

Wow...so we have this new forum member with 3 posts claiming their battery caught fire too.

What was your order number to validate your actual purchase of the battery?

If you do not have an order number or do not say it, then anything you say about the battery will be considered false and a lie.

Be open about your claim @Stencil_Box

 

Considered so by whom?

 

By anyone who is not blind, delusional, biased, senile or has had one too many glasses of hateraid ol chap.