Drove a familiar country road route today, and concluded the 195-60-17 Toyos really are not delivering. Pressures were 39/37, so I think they will not improve. They are definitely BEHIND the Michelin X-Ice of the same size that I run in the winter. I will be going up 1% in tire diameter, and about 20mm wider (215-55-17). I've been reading reviews and have got it down to four replacements. Would appreciate input from anyone with experience on these choices, or others that should be brought in. 1. Vredestein Hypertrac - seems a big favourite with many. How loud are they? 2. Vredestein HiTrac - seems a slightly updated version of (1). Anyone tried yet? 3. Michelin PS AS 4 - a bit more than the Vredes. Worth it?? 4. Michelin PS 2 - priciest of all, and only a summer tire, but I've got X-Ice for the colder months. Also, lowest tread wear. Remember these from years ago on true performance cars. Thanks in advance.
I can't speak to the Vredesteins, but I would go with the All Season over the PS4 or 5. TyreReviews did a comparison not terribly long ago and the AS gave something like 95% of the dry and wet performance of the PS but was far superior in wintery weather conditions*. If you were buying tires for a weekend track car, the pure PS is better, but for a daily driver, the All Seasons are better. *Yes, you've got the X-Ice Snows for that, but what if you get a freak early snowfall, or you need to travel somewhere wintery on short notice and you haven't switched tires yet?
I had Michelin PS 4S's on my old daily driver and they were amazing. Excellent wet traction and dry grip that just doesn't quit. I then ran Michelin X-Ice for winter. Would do the change over in early October for winter and April for summer. If Michelin made the PS 4S's or hell even PS AS4 in a 19" Prius friendly size, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
Where I live, we regularly get freezing rain and overnight frosts in May. Many many times I've tried planting cold hardy peas and beans to start in early may, and had to cover the trellis to protect against random icy conditions. For me, unless you live somewhere you can reliably expect temperatures to be above 8C at all times in April, its better to have all season tires. Just in case. I've similarly had snow in October here, but I don't want to put winter tires on the first week of October and take them off the last week of may every year. They're far less fuel efficient, louder and with a rougher ride than all seasons and winters more generally. And they really ruin themselves in warmer spring weather too. I find all seasons help to better split the difference on how long you're running each set of tires to have better longevity in general. Personally. Depends of course on where you live.
Well, I ordered and just got the new tires mounted. I chose the Vredestein HyTrac because they were very well reviewed, save 3 lbs per wheel unsprung weight vs, the Michelin PS4 AS, and cost less. Will post more about the changes noticed, but driving home from the shop I was immediately impressed with the handling (much crisper), and smooth road surface noise level (noticeably quieter). I did notice areas of damaged pavement are transmitted loudly, though, but maybe that's to be expected with a wider, heavier, stiffer tire. It will be interesting to see what the MPG(e) change is. If it's 10% or less I'll be thrilled.
A quick note in case anyone wonders: Totally love the 17 inch Borbets and Vredestein Hy-Tracs. The car is a little quieter over most surfaces (than the stock Toyos) and feels positively stable, even in some fairly tight corners. The V-rating is probably responsible for the handling edge, along with an extra 20mm of width. Had the first rain drive this morning, and the car felt "glued" to the road. I'd heard the Vreds were legendary performers in rain, so this was gratifying. The EV mileage hit has come in at 8-10 per cent over the stockers. Highly recommended!
Thank you for the update! I’m waiting on my 17” Borbets to arrive (17x7). What size Vred’s did you get to match those rims? This is the first I’m hearing of this tire and will need to read up on it. I picked up Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 Plus SL’s (195/60R17) to pair with the Borbet.
I chose 215-55-17 for 20mm wider contact area with 1% added diameter. This, and the V-rating and lower profile improves handling and also corrects most of the speedometer error that is there (and is in almost every car I've owned!).
VI2, sorry didn't see your question. To answer, yes there's about an 8-10 per cent loss of EV range, a trade-off I am happy to make to get rid of the sloppy handling of the Toyos that came with it. A bit more on the car's handling, now that I've driven a couple more weeks. My benchmark for comparing is my seat-of-the-pants memories of the 17 WRX I had. That car really shone in handling, with great turn-in, stability through corners, etc. The Vredestein's with stock suspension are about 75 per cent of the WRX handling. It's perhaps 40-50 per cent better in the corners than the 22 Prime with stock tires was. It's not a sports car, but is solidly in the "GT" category in my estimation. To radically improve handling further (talking track-level) would require more than better tires, and I don't want to fundamentally alter the car's basic characteristics, which are really more than adequate for the way I drive. The Vred's really shine in the rain. The V-rating and extra width are really appreciated deep into turns. Really, I don't think I could ask for more. And since I put on the X-Ice before the first snowflakes (in Canada, that means late October or early November) their all-season capabilities are fine for what I would expect to encounter with a freak early dusting of snow in the Maritimes.
Very helpful, thanks for the update. I was also considering the jump to 215/55 and was wondering about the rolling resistance impact. Similar to the rotational weight penalty of the OEM 19" wheels. I see you also didn't wait long to get rid of the stock hubcaps. The 3lbs weight saving was just the tires or with the rims? TIA
Well, yes, but I still have the stock 17 inch alloys with the wheel covers, which hold my 195-60-17 X-Ice winter tires. I actually like the black ugly wheel covers for winter use, as they help keep some of the road wash off the alloys and brake components. The 17 inch Borbets I got for the summer use are about the same weight (maybe a pound or two less) than the stockers, and the 3 lbs savings is for choosing the lighter Vred tires over the Michelin Pilot Sport all season tires I was considering. Net-net, the new Vred/Borbet setup is about the same weight unsprung as the Toya and stock 17 inch Toyota alloys. I think the 8-10 per cent loss of EV range (and, presumably gas mileage too) is probably from the extra 20 mm width and the "stickier" tire compound.
I kept the stock rims and caps with the same plan. I read somewhere the Toyota TPMS was a bit finicky but the Costco installed TPMS worked with no issues on the new rims. It is my wife's car, so no rush to replace the Toyo's yet but 215/55 are much more widely available as well. Enjoy the car.
Just a quick update on the Vredestein tires - still a happy customer. As the temps have risen in the Maritimes, the tire pressure has been creeping up from the 38/36 zone when temps were in the fifties (low teens Celsius), to now at 40/38 as we enter the seventies (20's Celsius). I've gotta say, the handling really firms up at 40/38. It is clear these V-rated Vreds start to really perform at that pressure. I'll probably leave them where they are, as we will be getting into upper seventies and eighties soon. These tires definitely over perform, especially in the wet.
