1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Gates starts building sodium nuclear reactor

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Trollbait, Jun 12, 2024.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Bill Gates is breaking ground on a nuclear power plant in Wyoming | PBS NewsHour

    "Bill Gates and his energy company are starting construction at their Wyoming site for a next-generation nuclear power plant he believes will “revolutionize” how power is generated.

    Gates was in the tiny community of Kemmerer Monday to break ground on the project. The co-founder of Microsoft is chairman of TerraPower. The company applied to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in March for a construction permit for an advanced nuclear reactor that uses sodium, not water, for cooling. If approved, it would operate as a commercial nuclear power plant."
     
  2. John321

    John321 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    1,285
    1,274
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I saw that article and read it.

    Very interesting.

    Great example of new technology potentially changing the dynamics of a particular technology - in this case energy production.

    quote from the article in Trollbait post #1
    "Gates told the audience at the groundbreaking that they were “standing on what will soon be the bedrock of America’s energy future.”
    “This is a big step toward safe, abundant, zero-carbon energy,” Gates said. “And it’s important for the future of this country that projects like this succeed.”"

    Both he and his ex wife are wonderful world citizens using their wealth to help make the world a better place for all of us.
     
    #2 John321, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    20,172
    8,353
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    Sodium cooling - not a new idea - but if/when exposed to air or water ... instant reaction being fire starting to much more violent reaction .... then there's hydrogen off gassing. I'm sure it'll be fine. What could go wrong

    .
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,660
    15,661
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Anything to get away from pressurized reactor vessels. I would prefer molten salt with a thorium fuel cycle but sodium is well understood. Molten salt vs high temperature metals . . . a hard problem.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Links for the company.
    Terrapower
    TerraPower - Wikipedia

    The design has a molten salt heat storage unit. Might mean there is a medium between the sodium and water systems.

    They are also working on designs that use a molten salt instead of sodium.
    Sodium is dangerous, but it won't boil away if there is an issue in the reactor itself.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  6. John321

    John321 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    1,285
    1,274
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    MIT agrees this is breakthrough technology and much safer,

    How hot salt could transform nuclear power | MIT Technology Review
    "But a growing number of companies are working to tweak this formula in an effort to improve on cost and safety. In the case of Kairos, the company plans to use an alternative fuel called TRISO, which is made from tiny uranium-containing kernels that can be embedded in graphite casings. TRISO fuel is robust, able to resist high temperatures, radiation, and corrosion. In addition, the reactor’s cooling system uses molten salt instead of water.
    Molten salt could be a huge help in making safer nuclear plants, Blandford says. The cooling system in water-cooled reactors needs to be kept at high pressure to ensure that the water doesn’t boil off, which would leave the reactor without coolant and in danger of overheating and running out of control. It’s technically possible to boil salt, but it could only happen at very high temperatures. So those high pressures become unnecessary."


    Pretty neat how these technology pioneers are ignoring naysayers and pessimist and jumping into these new technologies to develop breakthrough technology innovations. It mirrors what is happening in the Automotive industry and many other seemingly stale industries.

    There is a lot of research and practical applications going on with Sodium now
    Researchers develop high-energy, high-efficiency all-solid-state sodium-air battery (msn.com)
     
    #6 John321, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,340
    3,596
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes didn't Adm Rickover test this for subs? If so, my father was involved because he worked as engineer as nuke reactor expert at Westinghouse Bettis Labs. Dad also was on the start-up for the Shippingport reactor, sometimes considered the first peacetime reactor for power gen, that was also under Rickover. Of course you can imagine what my father said about his work: silence...
     
    #7 wjtracy, Jun 12, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2024
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    22,447
    11,760
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The sodium is hot, but the system isn't pressurized. High temp water systems have an explosion risk from the pressure.
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,855
    6,655
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Seawolf used one (575 boat, not the new one.)
    S2G reactor - Wikipedia
    I think the Rooskies used this plant in at least one of their Project 627 'Kit' (Whale) boats.

    They didn't scale up in subs but I'm digging the technology for a land based plant in Wyoming.

    Hence the name for the sub service.
    (Something that the kids over at Coronado could take a lesson from!)
     
    #9 ETC(SS), Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
    wjtracy and bwilson4web like this.
  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2018
    1,285
    1,274
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Here is yet another advancement in nuclear power generation

    Researchers upend long-held belief in nuclear reactor breakthrough: 'Our results defied even our own imaginations' (msn.com)
    "What they found is that carefully crafting the surface of materials used in nuclear reactors can actually change when and how liquids boil — a discovery with massive implications for reactor safety and performance.
    It was long thought this could only happen above 446 degrees. But by etching a special pattern of microscopic pillars onto the surface, a research team at Virginia Tech demonstrated this effect can start at just 266 degrees.
    Why does this matter? Because it enables water to boil and turn to vapor much more quickly, preventing dangerous overheating and improving the cooling of nuclear fuel rods.
    The potential benefits are enormous. More efficient heat transfer could boost the power output and lifespan of reactors, making carbon-free nuclear energy cheaper."


    Pessimist and naysayers who continually rail against anything that threatens the status quo are having some really bad days.
    Hopefully this technology revolution continues and takes the automotive world by storm offering new modes of transportation and fuels..
     
    hill likes this.
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,129
    50,045
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    having lived through the seabrook and plymouth debacles, i'm glad the people in the wyoming area are the guinea pigs
     
    #11 bisco, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,855
    6,655
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I’m old enough to remember when Gates building an experimental nucular reactor out west would have has a VERY different reaction from the usual suspects…..
     
  13. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2004
    1,539
    513
    0
    Location:
    NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    Limited
    You could maintain a Nitrogen atmosphere around the equipment.

    The Soviets came out with a submarine reactor that used molten lead for cooling. You got a lot of power out of the system but if you ever turned it off, the lead in the system would freeze up and you'd have to somehow remelt it before you restarted your reactor.
     
  14. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,557
    10,324
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In the back of my mind, I seem to remember a sodium reactor freezing up like that too.