1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2011 Prius Battery Reconditioning? - Sitting for 4 years

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Tusker, Apr 18, 2024.

  1. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Gentlemen,
    I have a line on a 2011 Prius that has been sitting behind a repair shop for 4 years. It has a rod through the block and the customer declined to get it repaired. I found the owner and am currently working on a deal to purchase the car. I am quite mechanical and do all of my own work as a general rule. I'm not afraid of the engine work/replacement, but don't have a ton of experience/background knowledge on the battery side of things. I have a couple of questions:
    1. I've read a bit about battery reconditioning. Is it reasonable to assume that I could recondition the battery in this car? I have to assume it has been fully self-discharged by now. It was reportedly in perfectly good working condition when the car was parked.
    2. If this battery can be reconditioned, what equipment should I consider using? Is the Prolong charger/discharger the way to go, or is there something else out there? Is there a DIY method out there that would be worth doing?

    I have another parts Prius (same situation) with a hybrid battery that has been sitting for about 2 years that I would want to also recondition if possible, as well the battery in my current daily driver (2013 Prius). As such, it's a little easier for me to justify purchasing a system. I'm just not familiar with the current options and capabilities of these systems.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,166
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i would not assume anything. prolong is best for batteriesthat are just showing signs of age.
    your going to have to pull every module, replace the bad ones, and balance the whole pack one module at a time with a hobby charger. lots of threads here with good advice
     
    Carall likes this.
  3. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    7,438
    6,920
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Fair chance that battery is landfill right now, nothing left to recondition.

    You've got some good ideas but I think you're much too late.

    It can turn into a heck of a lot of work vs. the one time cost of a new battery pack.
     
    Danno5060 likes this.
  4. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    It depends on the mileage and where they were operated, in city traffic or in the county. Check the voltage on the blocks with a scanner (bluetooth adapter). If all the blocks are approximately the same voltage, even if it is 14.6 volts (7.3 volts per cell), then this battery will most likely work after using the prolong equipment. If some blocks have 14.6-14.8 volts, and others have 14.4 volts or even lower, then this battery will probably work if prolong equipment used once a year, it will lose its capacity very quickly.
    If the battery has up to 5 modules with a voltage of 6.2-6.7 volts, then this battery can also most likely still be restored; the weakest ones have already died. By replacing these bad ones and restoring the capacity in the others, I think it will come back to life. If there are more than 5 modules with a voltage of 6 volts, then this battery is most likely junk. If the battery is full of modules with a voltage below 6 volts, then there is nothing to restore in that battery.
    This is how it happens with batteries on second generation Priuses.
    I would like to see the battery voltage numbers on a 3rd gen Prius that sat for 4 years.
     
    jeff652 and bisco like this.
  5. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Thanks for the replies so far, guys. I ended up picking the car up this weekend. After giving it a good wash and vacuum, it looks like it's going to be a pretty decent car. That is, once I can get the engine and battery issue sorted out. I haven't had a chance to do any investigation into the battery yet.
    I put the question to a Prius facebook group and it was suggested that I just charge each cell individually with a hobby charger before doing anything. Is it really that simple, or is there an advantage to using a charger like Prolong or Maxx Volts? I have the time, as the car will be sitting for a little while until I can get another engine to swap into it.

    Carall, I will try to get measurements on the battery before doing any charging and report back.

    Any other advice or comments are appreciated.
     
  6. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Finally got around to measuring voltages on the battery. I decided to pull all of the connectors and check each cell individually. The voltages ranged from 7.30-7.38. The lowest one was at the center and they rose steadily moving towards the outside.

    Carall, based on your comments above, I assume this means this pack is still usable. Would you recommend purchasing a dedicated battery charger, or would it be reasonable to try charging these individually with a hobby charger, as mentioned in another group?
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,166
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    @Carall
    it's helpful to quote someone if you want a reply
     
    Carall likes this.
  8. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    On a Prius that has been sitting for 4 years and the voltage difference between the modules is 0.08 volts, it doesn’t look bad. For 4 years the battery fought not to discharge and the voltage remained ~7.3 volts. I've seen a battery from a 2005 Prius with 67k miles, purchased in 2011, that sat for 5 and a half years without charging and was still good.

    The first thing I would do is make sure that the buss bars on the inside have enough contact. If this is the case, then the second step would be to use the prolong charger. If this is the only battery you are dealing with, then you can try using an LED driver with a constant (CC) low current 300-500mAh, the method described here on this site. You will also need a power supply for the battery blower. On 3rd generation Priuses, there is no need to install the battery cover because it is cooled from the bottom. I don’t know how well the led driver would work, but the Hybrid Automotive charger does work.
    If you plan to restore more batteries, then it is better to buy a Hybrid Automotive charger, which is made for this, but do not rely on the voltage that the Hybrid Automotive charger shows, it lies, the more you use it, the more the voltage differs from the reality. I got up to a 30 volt difference until I installed a bluetooth multimeter on top of the charger and now i can monitor the voltage from my phone wherever I am in my house. I don’t know whether this problem is solved in the chargers that are sold now. Probably not, since I've tried to find another DC DV meter and i couldn't. It is not an easy task to find a DC DV meter that will work with a DC voltage of 250 volts.
    I think it can be calibrated using the potentiometers located on it, but how long will this calibration last?
     
  9. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    @Carall, @bisco,

    I began charging the battery this weekend using a combination of advice from various threads on this site as well as a couple of how-to's on Youtube. I bought a CQ3 charger and some leads and am working my way through the pack using the following settings:

    discharge current: 1.0
    discharge shutoff voltage: 6.30
    charge current: 3.0
    capacity shutoff: 7500mAh
    D>C, 3 cycles


    So far, I've done two discharge/charge cycles on each battery before moving on. The first cycle gives fairly low capacity, since the batteries are already partially discharged. So far, I have had to manually restart a cycle since the battery capacity always reaches 7500mAh and ends the cycle. According to a guy on youtube, the battery is good if you can get your discharge mAh to get above 5000 mAh. All of the batteries ended up around 5700mAH on the second cycle.


    1. Should I continue cycling each battery until I reach a certain discharge capacity? If so, what should my target be?

    2. Should I set my next discharge limits lower than 6.3v, like is suggested by various people on this site? I think it might have been by @PriusCamper. If so, what should those levels be?

    3. Will I be able to notably improve my battery life/capacity by doing additional discharge/charge cycles?


    I appreciate your input and patience with a newbie.


    Thanks in advance,
     
  10. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Can anyone suggest a good thread to read that might point me to the exact process? I have an idea based on various things I've read/seen, but feel like I might be missing something here. I've searched the site quite a bit using terms like "battery charging" or "battery reconditioning", but have come up empty.

    Thanks
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,166
    50,060
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    there isn't an exact process, but there are a lot of threads where people detail how they did it and how successful it was, or wasn't.

    introduction-to-traction-battery-rebuilding-refurbishment.112868

    search words like rebuilding, refurbishing, reconditioning, traction battery, hybrid battery, high voltage battery and etc
     
  12. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    607
    624
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hmm, good to know. The volt meters can be calibrated, but yeah, who knows how long they stay that way...I will definitely look into it.
    And you're right, we haven't changed the volt meter; at least not that I know of. My name is Garrett and I was moved to manager position in July of 2022, so I will probably be the one who will be on PC for now. So I am relatively new to what components have changed before then, but I believe we have used the same part. Thanks for mentioning!

    Garrett
     
  13. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2022
    221
    61
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    One thing to add, you can test them to see if they hold charge by measuring the speed of which its volts go down.

    Thats the only real way to know if charging/discharging cycles helped recondition them to new.

    This could be achieved by simply putting a load on them like a 12v headlight bulb. And having a timer with a multimeter making a spreadsheet of volt drop within X amount of seconds or minutes. The ones that drop the fastest are the weak links. They either lack the proper fluid composition inside (in which case will never be reconditioned), or need more charge and discharge cycles.

    Just make sure to balance them all at the end before placing them back if you dont want your mpg to be bad or have hybrid check engine light. I normally put all mine to sit between two metal bars for a day, all connected in parallel.
     
  14. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    This method will only work on very weak modules, but to detect modules that trigger 1% delta soc will require much more time and greater load.

    Using the Hybrid Automotive method, discharging the entire battery to 5 Volts or lower, the capacity will restore to 8000 mAh and the only question is how quickly this restored capacity will drop to 2000 mAh. For worn-out modules this will happen in 1.5-2 years.

    There is no better way to balance the modules than to charge them with a low current for 20-24 hours. If all modules in the battery are original, the difference will be up to 0.3 volts.
     
  15. Tusker

    Tusker New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2024
    22
    7
    0
    Location:
    Missouri
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    @Carall, When you say "discharging the entire battery to 5 Volts or lower", do you mean all 28 cells connected together as a unit discharged to 5v? Or do you mean each cell discharged to 5v? I'm currently discharging each cell to 6.0v and have been seeing a ~200mAh increase for each time I do this.
     
  16. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2022
    221
    61
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    N/A

    When you say balance them by charging them with a low current for a day. how many volts do you recommend? Would 8.5V at 1 amp work? Assuming im charging all 28 at once.
     
  17. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    ... discharging all 28 cells connected together as a unit to 5 volts.
     
  18. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    i charge all 28 modules at once with ~350mA for 20-24 hours.
     
  19. Priipriii

    Priipriii Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2022
    221
    61
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    And what volts do you put it at?
     
  20. Carall

    Carall Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2023
    213
    51
    0
    Location:
    Harrisonburg, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    V
    My chargers are adjusted to 245 volts for 28 module battery.