Featured That's Progress: How the 2024 Toyota Prius Prime Compares to the Original 2001 Prius

I agree that there are many factors that come into play when comparing cars. The MPG is one of the most visible factors when you compare cars, but it's not (in my estimation) the most important factor. Keep in mind that I've spent at least 175K miles in each of the cars listed in the header of this thread.

When originally built, the Prius and Insight were both built to minimize pollution. They were not built to maximize MPG. That was a side effect.

We are moving into an era when it's considered perfectly OK to install many thousands of high speed chargers to enable BEVs to reach ranges that they are not suited for. It's an era when it's OK to calmly discuss shutting down gas stations in order to force people into expensive cars with large batteries hidden under the floors. The objective of these initiatives is to reduce the green house gasses which are generated when traveling by automobile. Sadly, they still do not even attempt to encourage the sale of low emissions models. Instead they encourage large batteries with the assumption that large, heavy batteries will be needed for situations where the existing transport modes use big, heavy engines and dirty exhausts.

In my situation, I'd like to have a car with minimal emissions. The 2002 Prius and 2024 Prius Prime both fit that requirement. I'd also like to have plenty of room and comfort. Both choices (2002 vs 2024) also fit the bill. I like the wide open "fishbowl" design of the Gen 1 Prius, but I've learned that I can depend on the Gen5 radar, sonar, etc to minimize the danger of cars hiding in my blind spot. The new 2024 Prius has given me access to my music library by linking to my cell phone. Back in 2002 I played my music via an MP3 player which fed an FM radio signal to the car stereo system. The GPS navigation was a touch different. I had a "Street Pilot GPS" glued to the steering column shroud, and it used a radio feed to give me a good idea of the local traffic conditions.

On the other hand... The 2024 GPS display is much clearer. The 2024 can manage slow merges into heavy traffic or, if I choose, it can quickly merge into traffic with sufficient power to get past many/most cars.

... And I'm still executing an RTFM maneuver, (reading the *** manual) .

 

I'm firmly in the camp of 2-3x lower cost per mile. Compared to my last Prius Prime:

• City cost/mile
  • 2019 Model 3 - ~$2.13 / 100 miles (includes 15% free charging)
  • 2017 Prius Prime - ~$7.00 / 100 miles
• Highway cost/mile
  • 2019 Model 3 - $3.00 to $3.50 / 100 miles
  • 2017 Prius Prime - ~$6.25 / 100 miles

I was working 10 miles away the Prime only had a 25 mile EV range. It was so bad, the Prime sat on the driveway as my 2014 BMW i3-REx, a 70 mi EV, was cheaper to drive in Huntsville. Contributing, I bought the Prime just before the winter, 55 F temperatures forced the Prime out of EV mode to run on gas.

August of 2023, I bought a 2017 BMW i3-REx to handle city driving, shorter wheel base, and preserve the Model 3 battery.

Bob Wilson

 

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Interesting thoughts.

I am concerned about pollution, but there's only so much I can do. I make around $3,000 per month, which financially eliminates a lot of cars from my list of possibilities unless I do somthing drastic like get a second job just so I can afford whatever car I want. My total transportation budget is 20% of my income, so around $600 per month. That includes insurance ($130), fuel ($150), car payment, maintenance and repairs.

For comparison, the absolute cheapest used Prius Primes on Cars.com are at about $13,500 to $14,000. That could be doable, but with nearly 200,000 miles I would be concerned of not only having a $200 per month car payment for the next 5 years, but also the likelyhood of a major repair.

I think in my situation it would be easier to just forgo owning a car altogether. I'd get more exersize that way, free up 20% of my income for other things and cause less pollution.

If only I could also use services that cause less pollution, like more local farming, change my gas furnace for solar, etc. But a lot of that isn't financially viable right now.

 

We sold a 2008 Prius in 2019 for $2000. Nothing wrong with it 160,000 miles and was getting 52 mpg consistently with somewhat new tires.


There are 5 pages of over 100 Prius for sale here in Colorado and this is only a partial listing!
Much better choices than a Prius are available for a used vehicles at much, much cheaper prices.
Used Toyota Prius for Sale in Aurora, CO (with Photos) - CARFAX

 

160,000 miles is about the mileage that the engine will be beyond repairable as it guzzles oil from cylinder damage from owners doing yearly oil changes.

You sold your Prius for $2,000. The cheapest Prius on that list is $5,799 with nearly 202k miles, almost three times the price.

Clearing Prius from the search and setting the mileage to between 150k and 200k, the cheapest car on that list is a 2005 Chrysler Town and Country with 198k miles "not actual miles" salvage title for $2,574 followed by a 2003 Mitsubishi Galant with 172k for $2,995.

What do you mean by "cheaper prices?"

 

The first subsidies Prius sales got in Japan was based upon the MSRP of the Echo there. These models have the same total EPA volume, which makes them a little bigger than the Corolla. The overall size of the gen1 lead to comparisons to the Corolla of the time, and they were very similar, as was the Civic. The main difference was in the price, which was in the Camry range with the Prius.

The Prius was small for the price.

As I understand, the Prius team always wanted it to be a hatchback, but higher ups said sedan for the gen1. The gen2, which had a big jump in size for not much price increase, was likely what the Prius was envisioned as.

EVs are low emission vehicles. It is why Japan's LEV program was funding development of them along side hybrids. BEVs don't have a tailpipe, which means no emissions of the directly harmful pollutants from engines within population centers where they can do the most harm. Then cleaning up power plants is a lot easier than millions of aging ICE vehicles. Even hybrids emit more over time.

 

What caused the strongly negative viewpoint Isaac? Did you buy a couple of Toyota that were in such poor condition? Your attitude suggests that you have had experiences that are the opposite of mine.

I traded in both of my previous hybrids with nothing but superficial problems despite the high mileage. Nothing that a new paint job can't fix. My wife's 2010 Camry will be up for sale soon with a bit over 180,000 miles. It still drives well, with only a failing paint job to bring the value down. The wife wants to check out the 2025 Camry so that should be her last car until self driving models become available.

 

Off the top of my head:

The 2001 model was barely available from dealers in 2000 and 2001, similar to the 2023/2024 models last year.

The 2002 models had a narrow range trim packages available. People ordered up to 8 months in advance but then accepted whatever was delivered to the dealer. A lot like what I saw at my local dealer this year.

In 2002, the most common concern voiced by onlookers was "how much does the battery cost to replace?" That's still a common question, probably based on the short life of the 12 volt battery in their existing car.

The most common misconception both then and now is that you have to spend all night charging the battery every single time that it's used. The PHEV usage model is such that you can drive the car for 20 minutes while doing errands and then plug it in for an hour to replenish the energy you used in that 20 minutes of driving. In essence, my 2024 Prime with a 40 mile range on battery is able to travel 80 or more miles per day on battery, charging only off a level 2 charger when it's not otherwise used.

 

Interesting article. I, still, see some old Gen 1 and Gen 2 Prius out on the roads!!!

 

I've owned a total of 6 Toyotas in my life. The last one I bought, a 2006 Prius, I've actually never driven for more than trying to get it fixed. It has almost exactly 200,000 miles on it.

I bought it and got it home, then the red triangle of death turned on and I noticed it was low on oil. I got a couple modules and replaced the bad ones and the red triangle went away.

To check the oil consumption problem I scoped the cylinders and the cylinders are severely scored. This didn't happen right at 200k, it's been this way for a while.

Now the CEL comes on... well the cat is dead. And I live in a California compliant state. So now I need a new engine, a new Californian catalytic converter and the HV battery is in the whack-a-mole phase. Oh! And it needs front wheel bearings and the dash and infotainment both stopped working, and I haven't even been able to take this car to work or the store even once in the three years I've owned it.

The 2013 Avalon Hybrid I bought with 50k miles and have done all the maintenance to it including 5,000 mile oil changes, or about every 3 months. Now, 5 years later, I have 150k miles and last spark plug change the cylinders look brand new. Recently the shocks have started to show signs of needing to be replaced. I had to change the swaybar links. And I probably should clean out the EGR cooler. But other than that my only complaint with the Avalon Hybrid is that the infotainment center is not working properly and the dealer fixed it for over $600 and now it's not working again.

 

I got introduced to Toyota in the late-70's when dating my High School sweetheart. Her father had a baby blue 1978 Toyota Cressida he got to replace an American made car that was a total piece of crap and didn't last three years. (I don't remember the make or model but he was a 100% union man who believed in buying American, but that car ruined him...he only bought Toyota's for the rest of his life.)
Anyway, I watched that Cressida live a LONG time...was passed on to his daughter when it was about 10-years old with 150,000 miles. She put over 100,000 on it before giving it to HER daughter. When the Cressida was just under 300,000, the rust was just too much and that was that. (With regular maintenance, a Toyota will last a LONG time unless rust or an accident kills it.) Same story for the T100 and Avalon other members of the family got....T100 got in a wreck and the old Avalon is still chugging along. (I think it's a 2002 and, still, rides like a dream!)
We are on our 4th Toyota...gave our 2008 Corolla to our daughter and got 2 Prius and an older Tundra....zero major issues with any of them.

 

I don't quite get this. A quick search shows the Avalon (new or used) is about $10,000 more expensive than an equivilent Prius (new or used), so if you could afford an Avalon you'd be able to afford a Prius. The MPG of the Avalon is about 1/2 of what the Prius gets. The Avalon is a full sized sedan, with only 16 cubic feet of storage area, much less than the Prius. I would not compare a fit, yaris, versa or spark against any of the Toyota mid sized cars.

What am I missing?

 

That:

1. When I found it, it was $15,000, 5 years old, and had 50,000 miles, and that I had seen and tested many Prii (normal and Prius V) that were about the same price (sometimes more) with the same mileage and year.
2. I live in the mountains and prefer the 6 levels of "B" mode in the Avalon and Camry.
3. I prefer a sedan for two or three reasons. One is I can put an amateur radio antenna on it in addition to one on the roof (which I did to the Avalon).

 

With regard to the changes since 2002....

With the exception of the 2002 "chicken wing" gearshift, the 2002 drove virtually the same as any other car of the time. Well with ONE exception: The engine noise did not relate to the car speed in any meaningful way.

Without exception everyone who drove my 2002 model thought that the car was under powered because when they floored the gas pedal the engine would race but the car seemed to drive no faster than it was going before. It would seem to be redlining the engine so they would back off the gas pedal and the car would respond by decelerating. The only scenario where the power became obvious was when merging onto a freeway at the base of a significant slope. I could accelerate at a steady rate all the way to the top of the pass, though often I'd slow as I exceeded the speed limit, long before I neared the peak of the pass.

The 2024 Prius Prime still has an odd gear shift lever that might as well be the old fashioned console PRNDL layout. It would be less confusing than the push button for "PARK" and automatic shift to park when you turn off the power. I don't have a problem driving it, but I get confused when I get out of my wife's Camry Hybrid without putting it in park before turning off the power.

Fast forward to the 2024 Prime. It has plenty of HP AND torque too. If I'm in hybrid (HV) mode it's easy to feel the acceleration as the engine winds up. If I'm in EV mode it moves quickly without calling on the ICE to supplement the EV motor.

Now if I can just get the government to turn off that annoying "driving through gravel" hazard buzzer I'll be happy.

 

Ah yes... the 2002 VS 2024 models.

The first generation Prius was built with only one thing in mind. It was to minimize pollution from the exhaust as well as from the various vents, filters and even the gas fumes from evaporation inside the gas tank. It was to compete with EVs and other inherently clean car types as demanded by California regulations. The outstanding mileage was a side effect. In order to promote sales, a tax credit was established that was pretty puny when compared to what we see now for BEVs made in the USA.

The Prius was redesigned in the last two generations (gen 4 covered 2016 ->2022 and gen5 covers from 2023 to ....) to address the flaws that were harped upon by the critics. In the PRIME version, it easily handles daily travel without using gas. It looks more mainstream. It has a more easily integrated multimedia interface that allows Android and Apple phones to provide content from the phones to the car's screen.

Compare that to the 2002 model, and you find that in 2002 you could get a GPS that displayed on the central flat-screen. There was an after market back up camera available too, but it required a bit of hacking. Those features are built into the 2024 model. We even have our choice of using Google Maps (via android auto / Apple car play) or the built in GPS maps that is quite nice all by itself.

 

With the advent of 5th Gen Toyota went from satellite to cellphone, for their navigation data? Ramifications?

 

How it's set up in the US(not sure if it extends to NA) means the traffic jam assist requires a subscription, whereas it doesn't in Europe. The subscription requirement also applies to Teammate on the Lexus LC.

 

You need to be within cell tower range then? Wonder if you'd be able to at least download maps of an area, where cellphone coverage is spotty?

 

our 24 hycam has no maps without onthly subscription.

fortunately, google works very well with carplay