red bullet for the 5th gen prius

An aftermarket solenoid on it's own can't affect the amount of valve timing in any way, it just could potentially allow the engine to get to the desired timing faster. So when you need more power and the ECU tells the solenoid to advance the timing, it happens faster creating a more peppy feel. Or when you no longer need the power and the ECU tells the solenoid to retard the timing back for max efficiency, that also would happen faster giving better fuel economy over the long term.

But there's a giant question as to whether the improvement of a few milliseconds of response can actually be felt in the real world. A different solenoid with additional changes to the ECU programming, or an intermediate device that alters what the cam and/or crank position sensors are reporting to the ECU, would be a different thing altogether. Something like that could alter the actual timing of the engine. But there's no way a Red Bullet or Quantum Solenoid could do those things on their own.

My gut still says that the only reason the old cigar shaped aftermarket solenoids showed noticeable improvement in some gen2/3/4 Priuses was because they were replacing either a gunked-up/failing OEM solenoid or a cheap, crappy aftermarket one. And the newer, flying saucer style solenoids don't even have that going for them because Toyota separated the oil channels into a separate part that isn't replaced by the RB/QS. I am extremely suspicious of any other "improvement" being confirmation bias/placebo effect. And RightOnTime's posts in this thread have only made that gut feeling stronger.

 

There may be a couple misapprehensions in the above ...

• I can't quickly confirm there's an electric engine oil pump. Not saying there isn't, but I haven't confirmed it. (There's an electric oil pump in the Prime's tranny, but that's a different story.)
• whether there is or not, it's not the whole story for the exhaust timing control; there is a solenoid OCV for that.
• for a gen 5, the aftermarket part being discussed here goes on the exhaust side (surprise!). It's used on the intake side in the earlier Prius generations. (That's been the subject of about 3½ pages of discussion in this thread.)

The intake cam controller is a different kind of animal in gen 5 and doesn't have any modder replacements (at least not yet, that I know of).

Just to keep things interesting, TMR here is talking about testing in gen 2, where the OCV was used on the intake side.

It doesn't seem likely that the effects of changing an intake OCV or of changing an exhaust OCV will be identical. There could (to put the most optimistic spin on) be some benefit either way, but with some differences in the details and explanation. That's all been left pretty vague in this thread so far.

 

Very likely but even when compared to a known good one there was no gain on the dyno.

I haven't had a chance yet but I'm going to try to data log the Prius with my HPtuner which should be able to record commanded advance, actual advance , etc.

 

I'm not sure that any approach based on querying values over the CAN bus would be able see the changes in commanded and actual advance fast enough to catch the changes that matter; whatever results it showed might just have more to do with the timing of the CAN queries and responses.

That's why mr_guy_mann's approach using the multichannel scope to see the action directly also struck me as the most promising (or pretty much only sensible) way to tackle it.

 

I still love you Guys!

But to each their own and the offer is still on the table if anyone wants to try our Loaner program for the GEN 5 Prius

 

I have no experience with Red Bullet. Only with Quantum.

They are very good people and have great customer service!

 

I am just a simple Mechanic that works everyday on these cars. From lowering these cars, adding additional chassis braces, installing GR Parts including the front and rear spoilers.

This is what I do for a living and it is quite a fun job!

The only thing that bothers me a lot are people who have no clue what they are talking about and use words to describe the Quantum such as:

It does not seem likely
I can’t quickly confirm
My Gut still says
How is this eety beety motor work to move the camshaft?
If I had to guess the ETC might be an electronic system mangler
If this thing
But it’s likely
I am doubtful
I suspect any noticeable gains
It’s a doodad
Thoughts from my Gut

This would drive any person crazy!

Hammersmith - I just need to apologize to you for that I only read half of that long posting (small book) and neglected to read the exhaust question. I just got caught up with your previous ramblings and ignored it.

It’s getting late and I need to get some rest for tomorrow to do an EGR job on a Gen 3


I am now part of the long paragraph(s) club!


iPhone ?

 

I come from the diesel tuning world originally. Bolt on's like multiple turbos, injection pumps, cam plates, fuel delivery valves, governor spring kits, fueling modules, propane and nitrous power adders all lived up to hype on the street and the dyno. I also took a few 5-point-slow pink slips at 1am on a Saturday night from guys like you who thought bolt on's didn't matter, let alone on a diesel.

 

Guys like me? Wth are you talking about? You sound like just another DA, Get Bent. There's a big difference between bolting on a supercharger and a f ing solenoid.

Bolt on "improvements" rarely live up to the hype, unless significant additional real tuning is performed.
It's weird, ya know, because all the dozens of people that I remember adding bolt on SC and turbo systems never got the 'hyped' numbers unless they did the second part of that sentence, which is now underlined for your enjoyment. Allow me to repeat....Get Bent...

 

This showing chain tension and referencing oil pump would lend me to believe the oil pump is chain driven. Referencing a 2023 XLE from ProDemand.

 

It's both mechanical and variable. It's driven by engine power, but it has some way to vary pressure. The oil pump on the gen3/4 Prius engine used a fairly simple variable oil pump. The oil pump on the newer Dynamic Force engines is more complex and has much finer control over the oil pressure.

Here's a link to an article that talks about both. Type 1 was on the gen3/4, and Type 2 is on the gen5.

Variable discharge oil pump

 

Yep definitely clueless here. I have been trying to figure it all out over the last 30+ years across a dozen high performance vehicles. I mean building and tuning isn't even a primary hobby for me at this point I just do it for the kicks..

 

That just tells me you know nothing about performance adders. The only thing bent here is the couch in your head from me sitting on it rent free.

 

Yay! In the spirit of the season, RightOnTime supplies an Easter egg hunt to spot where a bunch of different quotes came from, and even check how many of them were talking about the Quantum at all!

Whee! Links added to where each thing was said in this thread. (If nobody ever said it in this thread, no link.) added if it was somebody "talking about the Quantum" (or the Red Bullet, or any other OCV), if it was about something completely different.

Gotta wonder what kind of reputation RightOnTime hopes to achieve by glomming together ten quotes with so little regard for how many were even about what he says they were about.

1. This was about what kind of oil pump a gen 5 has, not about any OCV solenoid.
2. This was about the gen 5 intake cam controller (which isn't any OCV solenoid) and how it works. The same post also goes on to explain exactly how its eety beety motor does move the camshaft. So, written by someone who did have a clue. Weird.
3. This was about the screen name of a PriusChat member, a retired Navy chief, who is not now and never has been an OCV solenoid (unless that's something squids call each other when they're mad).
4. Doubtful about whether there is any aftermarket product for the gen 5 intake timing at all (the Quantum is not one).
5. People talking about a _____ and wondering if it lives up to its advertising kinda have to call it something. (_____ is hard to pronounce.) Thing and doodad (and gizmo, etc.) are pretty common words for some widget that people are talking about. Seriously, the choice of generic noun here is what makes RightOnTime crazy?
6. A discussion participant who flags his or her own opinion as off-the-cuff or 'gut' is being transparent to readers. (An off-the-cuff or gut opinion, from someone with relevant knowledge, is also not always an uninformed one. The person may just have put less work into it than they would before stating it more surely.)
7. ...

Right, 7. The automotive aftermarket offers lots of things doodads widgets commercial products that are advertised to do lots of things. Those products are going to get discussed by people, wondering whether they do those things, even by people who haven't bought/installed them yet. That's the order preferred by a lot of people.

Those people won't always end the discussion just 'cause one person insists that having installed the product gives him the only right to pipe up. The world just doesn't work that way. And the more reputational self-ownage such a person engages in, the less the world works that way.

 

Have you ever been on a street corner and hear a homeless man rant for hours on hours talking straight gibberish? Just keeps on talking and talking with no sense of stopping?

Couple of pictures today from a man that actually works on cars:




Headgasket Job on a Gen 3 Prius. Don’t forget to change the oil regularly so it does not look like this.

*Can’t believe that my Friend fell for that trap. I purposely added those quotes to drive him crazy! He actually went through all those pages from this thread and analyze each line that was misquoted.

Then he took the time to write all of that in another long post!

That is pretty sad and entertaining at the same time.

Wow!

 

Astroturfing Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster

 

Nifty....



And controlled by a little solenoid, too.

Makes me wonder, as it's probably easier for an outfit that already sells solenoids to add another one to the lineup than to branch out into anything as different as the BLDC intake phaser motor ...

how long will it be till there's a performance oil-pump control solenoid hitting the market?

Variable Displacement Oil Pumps – The Future Of The Oil Pump Is Here

 

Can anybody confirm if there are two conventional camshaft position sensors (one for each camshaft) on this engine?

It might have been possible for them to integrate the intake position sensor into that actuator motor/EDU, but neither that video nor what @Hammersmith posted looks like they did. So I'm assuming they just have two conventional sensors, one for each camshaft, but I haven't yet found a diagram to show that for sure.