2023 Prius Prime - Share Your EV Mode Range, Rate

Was the defogger on? The heat pump can do some heating and dehumidifying for defogging, but only to a degree, and getting it do so means manual adjustments to the HVAC settings.

Pushing the defogging button tells the car to prioritized defogging. The best way to do that is run the heat pump in AC mode for dehumidifying, and use the engine for heat.

 

Sorry to hear your Prime is not behaving as you expected it would, It doesn't always meet every ones exectations.

A Prime is definitely not and doesn't behave like or have a big enough high voltage battery to give all the conveniences of a full EV, In my opinion, it gives an excellent primer to a full EV in both efficiency with the convenience while not having to worry about some of the issue that are possible to encounter when switching form a internal combustion engine car to an full EV car.

 

I ran more errands in Denver's +5F to -5F degree weather the past few days and tried a few experiments. These particular ones I DO NOT RECCOMMEND!

For starters, it is very clear that even around 0F, if you do not turn on cabin heat, the car stays in EV mode. That was the case both on local streets and interstates at highway speeds (well, when I could get up to highway speeds anyway). The manual says there are lots of conditions where the engine will come on in extremely low temperatures, I didn't think HVAC was such a big part of it.

Out of curiosity, I did do all my errands without HVAC until finally draining the battery: I'm quite surprised, 36.5 miles!!! Driving around around 0F with no HVAC isn't something I'm going to do normally, but the data is interesting. With all the hype about electric range plummeting in cold weather, it must be all about HVAC then--at least for the PPPXP. That compares to ideal conditions where I can get 50 miles on a charge and low 40s if I'm not being super-miserly. Even for that 36.5 miles I still had other impediments besides cold. While no HVAC, I was using the heated steering wheel and butt warmers most of the time--AND--road conditions weren't exactly great either, much of it was on loose snowpack and slush where heavy de-icing was in play, that is a big mileage killer. I'm impressed!

One other interesting observation is that unlike in normal conditions where the car goes all the way to 0% EV range before going to HV mode, this time it did so at 7%. I figure that is to protect the battery, I read lots about it being particularly bad for a Li-ion to be both discharged and cold. Granted 7% EV range is still over 30% battery charge, but it didn't go down to 0 before the engine engaged. So, that 36.5 miles before the engine turned on wasn't even down to "0%" EV range.

Once the ICE did engage, I went ahead and fired up HVAC. I was pretty dang cold!! This is more anecdotal, but it seems that the HVAC system was struggling to put out much heat. I was hoping that a few minutes after the engine turned on and I fired up the HVAC system I'd get decent amounts of hot air. It wasn't very warm at all and never really heated up the car for the 10 or so minutes I had left doing my errands. It may be that I was just so cold I couldn't tell, but I think I would be able to tell. Again, not the smartest experiment from a comfort standpoint, but I did want to see frigid EV range and was impressed.

will

 

If I don't wait until the temp gauge is into the operating range, turning on the HVAC at 'warmer' temps will cause the needle to drop. This is an auto system that will wait some before going to full heating on start up.

 

@Trollbait: Interesting. That method of delaying the fans turn-on until there is some engine heat to actually warm the air was even in my Gen1 Prius. It was a bit weird to get used to, but once I understood why, it made perfect sense. I was expecting that for my Gen5 too, but figured after 10 minutes the car would have been warm enough by then and it didn't. I didn't have any of my monitoring apps running to be able to tell.

will

 

An efficient engine has less waste heat for warming up everything else. Then combine that with really low temperatures, and have a long wait to get hot air. The car entered HV mode with EV charge still available. Perhaps it did so in order to keep the load on the engine low. To give the oil more time to warm up and reach everything before putting stress on the parts. That could mean longer time before the coolant warms.

I've used grill blocks that help with warm up times. Pretty sure the Prius has an active shutter that should have been closed at those temps. Maybe it wasn't; could have been frozen to the default open position.

 

Floating around 0C since I got the car 2 days ago, and with auto mode for the fan/heating and set to 21C temp with my toddler in tow, the estimated range is 52km on a full charge. Given I have steel rims and winter tires, honestly, not bad. More than enough to do all my close to the house driving and when I was going full speed on my commute on the highway I used to HV mode to keep the EV mode for denser traffic and city driving once I got downtown.

At first I wondered if 50-55km sounded low or not, but even with the air system and fans off, it only improves to 55-60 estimate. So maybe 10%? But worth it to not be sitting in a 3C car and a toddler saying they're cold. Kids in carseats don't benefit from heated backseats even if I had them.

Honestly, love the car. And once its paid off, I may very well just put an order in for another one. We eventually need 2 cars in my family, I'm a massive toyota fan and I don't exactly want an SUV or large car. So we might be a 2 prius (prime) family in the future. I wonder how long this gen will last... Maybe we plan for a 2028 Gen 6

 

I find this fascinating as my ICE comes on in EV mode even in 30 degree or so weather with HVAC, seat warmers, wheel warmers, etc. off. Even after driving for 5-10 min to warm up the engine. I do feel it is coming on more frequently since my 12v battery was replaced by Toyota (died and was supposedly faulty). Not sure what would change, but perhaps it lost my driving data that was built up over 6 months of warmer weather driving.

 

All above descriptions look very normal to me. Let me explain why, trying my best to be as brief as possible while including as much of the basic Prime behavior as I can fit.
With the HAVC systems temp set at 21 C with the ambient temp being ( around 3 C ), the Primes heat pump is providing ALL of ( if the Primes coolant temp is also somewhere around 3 C ) the cabin heat while in EV mode.
The efficiency of the heat pump to provide cabin heat is no where near the capability of the engines coolant to provide cabin heat, and the heat pump has to work harder and longer toi bring the cabin temp up to the HVAC se temp of 21 C while in EV mode.
On the other hand in HV mode, at least after the engine coolant temp has risen to ( from my observations of a Gen 4 Prime ) 55 C where the engines warmup cycle completes and the gas engine can them be shut down ( if the HAVC system has not been turned on yet ) the HVAC systems set temp of 91 C typically warms the cabin to that temp faster than when in EV mode.. That warmup cycle temp is typically higher than 55 C if the HVAC system is already running before the engine coolant warms to that level, basically.

The EV range estimates are calculated based on previous drive drive data, also know as history data, the Primes ECU\(s) retain to make estimates and adjustments to the car behavior to provide the most efficient drive behavior for the data it has.

 

I guess when it's cold, it may well be worth running HV for a few minutes using the engine, then switching to EV. The pump won't need to work nearly as hard to keep the temp up in that case I assume.

Or just run the climate scheduler before we leave while it's plugged in the garage and be good to go.

In either case, 55km still covers the majority of my daily driving. If I use HV on the highway in winter when it's not stop and go traffic, then I'll for sure never run out of EV mode for the in city stuff.

 

I've found that when it's really cold outside (0 F and below) even if the cabin is 70 or 80 F that warmth only lasts about 10 miles and I was able to feel any cold air that entered the cabin through the firewall.

So yes, it sure does help the heat pump when giving it a boost by using the engine coolant heat, while also keeping in mind that the engine coolant temp drops off while driving with the engine off in EV mode. And on the hwy into the wind engine coolant temps will fall much faster.

And also using the engine sparingly during winter may help to keep the Estimated EV miles higher though the winter months.The down side to that is that in the spring you wouldn't necessarily see the EV estimate rise as fast as it might if the estimate has gotten lower during the winter.

Climate scheduler will sure help by giving the EV battery and heat pump some exercise before the drive, even if it's not all that great for getting the cabin temp to a comfortable level ( one of the biggest complaints about pre-conditioning for the Gen 4 )
Toyota says that 14 F is the temp where the heat pump looses all it ability to produce heat.
Although I believe that even when temps are below 14 F running Climate scheduler will at very least get the battery heater running and use some of the battery, thus heating it up slightly too.
At 0 F ( depending on temps / heated garage ) Climate Scheduler might also start the engine in Gen 5 ?

 

Does remote start or climate even engage the engine? I thought that the car refused to use the engine in those cases for safety reasons. But maybe I've misunderstood something

 

Good question ! If the engine doesn't start for climate scheduler in Gen 5 than at 0 F the cabin is not going to get warm, I'd imagine.

 

Too soon for a verdict, I've only had my 2024 Prius Prime for about a month, but I have one story about range. I plugged it in, and it said I had 50 km EV range. I drove to town 14 km away, and it ran out of EV charge halfway back. Maybe 22 km, tops. I was driving in Eco mode, and quite conservatively.

I always thought Toyota was more honest about their claims than other auto makers.

 

The answer is yes in my case. I remote start it to warm up the inside because it can get quite cold here in winter. The engine runs a fair bit to accomplish that.

 

One of the first thing I noticed was the poor interior heating in cold weather. I used an old trick that worked quite well in my Gen 3. I placed some cardboard in front of the radiator, but a few inches away, to allow airflow when the fans are engaged. I never had any overheating problems, even in the hottest weather. My Gen 5 is now quite toasty inside in the most severe cold.

 

If you got the wrong impression because I left out some critical info, I'll try to do better below.

I've found that when it's really cold outside (0 F and below) even if the cabin is 70 or 80 F from a ceramic space heater running in the cabin while charging, that warmth only lasts about 10 miles and I was able to feel any cold air that entered the cabin through the firewall while driving in EV mode with the HVAC system shut off.

I use grille block too, mine is pipe insulators cut to fit in the grille openings. I monitor engine coolant temps using the car scanner app when using the HVAC systems heater with the engine running or if the misses makes me turn on the heater when she is in the car. Heated seats are usually good enough to keep me warm while I'm in EV mode in the winter. And if I need more heat I'll just switch to HV mode and run the engine.

 

I personally just accept that the cold weather will reduce my range and be quite happy that I get the fuel efficiency I do when I need the engine on.

Mind you I park in our one car garage overnight so it's rarely been sitting in -20C all day long when leaving as is.

But if 3/4 of my commute is covered by EV with a little bit of gas usage, it's still sipping the whole way. After 800km on the Odo I've only used a quarter gas tank. Which, is wild. That would have been nearly 80 litres of fuel on our previous car.

 

Today was a nice day in ATL and I had to do a 40-mile drive. Some city, some highway, but average was about 5.4mi/kWh for the day so on my '23 SE it's not hard to go 55 miles EV only. No climate control, windows closed. Unless it's pure highway at 75mph+, I always get at least 45 miles.

 

I've had my 2024 XSE Premium for 3 weeks. At highway speeds with some hills the EV only range seems to be about 36 miles. I haven't been able to complete a full drop to 0% nominal battery in city driving conditions yet. The display indicates about 3.7 mi/kwh for the highway and as high as 5.4 mi/kwh driving in town like a grandma. The average seems to be about 4.3 m/kwh in mostly low speed city driving.

Using the rate to estimate range is a bit tough since I'm getting conflicting charging data depending on the app I use. The Toyota app tells me that it takes about 7.1 kwh hours to charge from 0% nominal to 100% nominal. That's only 52% of the 13.6 kwh battery capacity. It would result in range of only 31 miles at 4.3 mi/kwh. My Enel X JuiceBox 40 app tells me it takes 11.6 kwh to charge from 0-100%. That would be range of 50 miles. From reading posts, it seems like the EV battery capacity is about 10.6 kwh, resulting in a range of 46 miles.

When I get a chance, I'll start it from 100% and track the miles closely to 0% (when the ICE kicks in) under city and hwy conditions so I know the actual range.