Featured Very few EVs qualify for the federal tax credit as of 2024

A short while ago there were ~100 Hertz Teslas with 100000-200000 miles, the amount they wanted for the 192,000 mile Tesla was basically the same as they are asking for those with 80,000, but I literally can’t find any of the Hertz cars even ones I saw yesterday.

Either they all sold in hours or were pulled

Also if these cars were a total bust I could believe it because the pandemic era road share/rental vehicle market has collapsed almost to zero
but how did they get 192,000 miles in a few years if nobody was using them?

With those kind of miles a lot of people had to be renting the cars.


In another subject despite no discussion about it , it appears the GM Bolt deal with dominos either never occurred or was a much smaller delivered qty, heck the non-public “seat delete” Bolts that you can’t buy are up for sale brand new
in fair numbers to the general public, which is extremely unusual for new vendor specific custom cars just going to lots to buy.

 

Buyer's market for TSLA stock, $227.22.

Bob Wilson

 

i'd love to find one of these low resale value teslas, i've been hearing that refrain for a long time.

 

After Big Tesla Bet, Hertz Selling One-Third of EV Fleet (msn.com)

"Hertz said Thursday that it would sell about 20,000 EVs in the U.S., and use some of the proceeds to purchase internal-combustion-engine vehicles. The company in a regulatory filing cited weaker demand for electrics, and their higher operating costs."

Hertz is selling 1/3 of its electric cars to buy gas cars instead | CNN Business

"Electric vehicles have been hurting Hertz’s financials, executives have said, because, despite costing less to maintain, they have higher damage-repair costs and, also, higher depreciation.

“[C]ollision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call."

 

companies make investments. sometimes they pay off, sometimes not. they probably should have tested the idea with an unsuspecting customer before going ahead with the investment.

 

Part of the rapid depreciation is Tesla manufacturing efficiency. Tesla continues to reduce prices while making a profit we’ll learn about in five weeks.

Bob Wilson

 

i don't mind, i can get a base model y now for 36k, only 1k more than our hycam, and much less than many are spending on prius.

 

As mentioned, it was the repair costs, not lack of being rented out that was hindering profits. Another source I read also stated there was extended down times waiting for parts. These might be Tesla, and not BEV issues.

The previous Dominoes owner in town had a smart ED. When they sold the franchise, they took the EV, and the EVSE was removed. Considering where most pizza joints are, the cost and ability of installing the EVSE could have been the issue. A Bolt wouldn't need one like a smart ED, but Level 1 isn't going to cut it for daily use.

Where are you seeing these Bolts for sale?

There is the assumption most buyers have of a rental car being abused. Then they now have questions about the battery in a rental EV. Hertz was probably seeing depreciation worse than a what a private owner would.

 

The big takeaway for me was a business entity focused on profitability deciding EV's were a liability and not the way to continue for now.

Many here have voiced similar sentiments for their lifestyle.

Not really a review or commentary so much as a financial decision.

I own a PHEV and certainly have an open mind on EV's - have no illusion they are cheaper to own than gas vehicles.

Hertz CEO
"Electric vehicles have been hurting Hertz’s financials, executives have said, because, despite costing less to maintain, they have higher damage-repair costs and, also, higher depreciation.

“[C]ollision and damage repairs on an EV can often run about twice that associated with a comparable combustion engine vehicle,” Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr said in a recent analyst call."

 

When you buy at the top of the market, then you suffer losses that you did not anticipate. Having said that the Hertz vehicles I saw for sale near my area were no great bargain. Almost all were M3s with one MY. And with warranty differences and potential tax differences, I can't see why anyone would buy them at the prices they are offered. That was two days ago.

 

Hopefully this will accelerate simplifying maintenance and repairs. For example, the Cybertruck cabin air filter is very easy to replace. In contrast, my 2019 Model 3 requires a circus contortionist.

Simplfying maintenance and repair would expand service beyond today’s overburdened service centers.

Bob Wilson

 

don't rental companies get cars close to cost?

and do they go to dealerships for service and repair?

 

They had no problem renting to Uber drivers, but those ended up getting damaged more often. The lack of comprehensive charger coverage puts a damper on the number of other renters willing to try.
Hertz is scaling back its EV ambitions because its Teslas keep getting damaged - The Verge (links here to Hertz's report)

I suspect they didn't fully take into account depreciation when they signed the deal. It's not like EVs potentially being worse than an ICE in that regard was an unknown.

None of the EV's I saw listed by them today screamed deal to me.

That's on Tesla. Hertz's repair costs were higher than ICE models because of lack of third party parts, and the longer time it took to get parts from Tesla.

First question likely depends on the size of the company and order. It's like health insurance. The large business can get lower rates than a small one. Then the different tax rules for business vs individual play a part. Much of the goods in a business to business catalogue cost more than what you would pay at Walmart.

The second depends on location and warranty. The latter could be different for fleet sales. A small rental location could send cars for service to the dealer, but a large, busy one could have their own department for basic service.

 

Keep in mind Hertz is a professional car buying entity - they get deals and discounts we can only dream of.

They buy thousands of cars at once and get fleet as well as corporate discounts.

If they got soaked on depreciation, I would hate to see how individual private parties are getting soaked.

A number of individuals on this forum have expressed trepidation about buying a battery powered vehicle second hand - this is a common concern.

I own a PHEV with a battery and am very pleased with it - having said that I would be more than cautious buying a secondhand PHEV.

Couldn't imagine buying a used EV whose battery is impossible to economically replace - it makes no sense.

 

It depends on who they are dealing with and...
sometimes what you think you know isn't true

Elon Musk has confirmed that Tesla didn’t give Hertz a discount on its order of 100,000 electric cars.
Elon Musk confirms Tesla didn't give Hertz discount on 100k EV order, questions TSLA surge over it | Electrek

Mike

 

From past reports, Teslas generally hold their value better than other EVs. I believe Hertz is suffering from a double whammy of people being leery over the battery's condition, and the extra abuse a rental car is felt to suffer. That gets compounded by the specifics of the warranty on the car, and whether the buyer was aware these rental EVs were popular with rideshail drivers.

 

i've been looking at used ev's for years. i'm still waiting to se (what i consider) a good deal.
someone must be buying them.

i see peole over at bolt.org all the time saying they got a great deal on a used bolt.
a couple years old, 20-30,000 miles, $18-20,000.

maybe if you don't qualify for the tax credits, but i got my new one for $22,500. what would be considered serious depreciation in a couple of years?

 

How long has the tax credit been going on for?

 

That is somewhat complicated.
The Bush EV tax credits started in 2009.
Two auto makers were phased out and received no credits in the last few years of that credit (Tesla & GM).

In 2023 the first phase of the IRA credits were available to all automakers. There were some requirements for income, cost of car, and manufacturing of the car.
In 2024 the next phase of the IRA credits went into effect. This tightened a number of requirements, while also making it easier for consumers to take advantage of. A POS reduction of car price went into effect which effectively removed the late liability requirement for the customer.

So you could answer your question with:

• January 1st,
• 2023
• Or 2009.

 

This study may answer the question posed in post #157

EVs are depreciating faster than gas cars. Here's how the oldest models like Tesla are faring. (yahoo.com)
"

• EVs depreciate faster than any other category of cars.
  
  
• The Tesla Model 3 holds its value better than any other EV in the study.
  
  
• Hefty discounts and government incentives are causing EVs to depreciate more quickly.

Electric vehicles aren't holding their value like other cars."

For Bolt specifically:
"The Chevrolet Bolt EV, long General Motors's only electric car option before new models began rolling out in recent years, comes in second-to-last with a five-year depreciation rate of 51.1%."

AAA Survey Shows EV Owners Should Be Concerned About Depreciation (insideevs.com)

Why Do Electric Vehicles Depreciate So Much? (A 2023 Guide) - Finding EV
"Electric vehicles depreciate so much because of government interventions, an EV’s condition, and the current state of the market. Accumulating these factors, electric cars lose a few thousand dollars yearly after hitting the roads."

I would currently consider an EV right now if I bought a car but-
things that could turn the equation for me upside down:
Continued government intervention on car pricing
Continued government interference with electricity generation driving pricing sky high in all areas
No development of waste stream mitigation for electric vehicles and components
No repairability of the electric power packs that is financially feasible for individuals.
A somewhat minor car wreck that could destroy my vehicles repairability and useability due to power pack integrity.

I like EV's - and if I was in the market for a new car - the Chevy Bolt would be my vehicle of choice right now. I would go into the purchase with eyes wide open knowing I keep vehicles for 10 years and the Bolt would be worth next to nothing when I got rid of it. That would be okay for me - electricity is not expensive where I live and I would have gotten the value for myself out of the car during that time. I certainly realize these are my feelings and not the only side of the equation but do think I am putting a voice to many others feelings/concerns on the subject. It would be foolish indeed to think my opinions were special or the only side of this discussion!