Coolant Loss

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by donzoh1, Nov 13, 2023.

  1. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    IMG_20231113_114803960.jpg My 2013 was losing coolant from the large hose connecting the cylinder head to the driver's side plumbing. I tightened these clamps (yes I know they're incorrect) and that fixed the major leak. But, a small amount of coolant was still being lost. I noticed some dried coolant residue on the coolant reservoir so I figured it was either bypassing the reservoir cap or the coolant hose connection at the front of the reservoir. I tied some paper towel strips around both. The strip at the small hose connection has now turned pink so I'm hoping that's it. Note the pink paper towel strip in contrast to the white one under the cap.
     
  2. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    The jug is probably cracked right there at that fitting look carefully with a flashlight sticking right on top of the jug and on the side the bottom front you'll find it I doubt things are leaking past the clamp. Usually the plastic of the jug is compromised
     
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  3. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    I did stop the leak with clamp tightening but the reservoir could still be cracked.
     
  4. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    It looks like it may be and the system does make a certain amount of pressure so you want to keep an eye on it when you get it warmed up going somewhere for a while whatever and see what you have going on If it is leaking from pressure you need to get it replaced a cheap aftermarket one can be fine It's a Gen 3 so it's not going to be around that long no worries on cheaper parts the cheaper the better with this car actually better doesn't improve the car's chances per se.
     
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  5. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Perhaps a new hose????? There reall isn't much to trim back and reattach.
    And a new cap? That will likely stop the leaking. If not, you could remove the tank, clean
    it really well. Then fill the tank and put pressure on it to find the leak. Then heat
    an old screwdriver or something metal and melt the place(s) where the leak is.
    Or purchase a new one....

     
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  6. johnHRP

    johnHRP Active Member

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    You use non-springloaded clamp on coolant system. That is the most common cause of leaks. Spring loaded OEM clam expand and contract as the temperature changes. If the hose is not cracked, than just replace the clamp. Otherwise, replace both and the leak will never occurs anymore.
    Always use OEM "spring hose clamp" on any car. There is a reason why Tesla, and all ICE cars still use this spring.
    https://www.huyett.com/blog/hose-clamp-types
     
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  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  8. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Some of these cars seem a perfect candidate for o-ring removal and zero pressure coolant It's for big trucks and it stinks real bad I can't remember the name of it We were using it in the '80s and some Toyotas but basically you change your cap and the stuff runs zero pressure it just gets pump through it doesn't need the pressure for the added boil protection if you will I guess.
     
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  9. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Any update? Did you find what was leaking? Were you able to fix it?
     
  10. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    Update: Coolant loss continues. Today, I went for a drive of about 10 miles. Outside air temp was 38F and speeds were up to 70mph. Temp went up to 240F but declined a bit when at slower speeds just before getting back home. No coolant leaked from radiator cap or reservoir but gas/vapor was escaping from cap. No codes have been set during any of the past coolant loss nor today with temp up to 240. The only change has been that after K-Seal was added to coolant, the stumbling/missing on start-up went away. Even this prior condition didn't produce any trouble codes.

    What would make sense to me at this point is a broke head gasket with combustion gas escaping into a coolant passage causing over pressure and/or elevated coolant temperature. Is this reasonable with no codes set? About 25K miles ago, the car had the dreaded EGR Cooler clogging so a broken head gasket is definitely a possibility. However, the car ran well after EGR Cooler was thoroughly cleaned. I also installed an oil catch can at that time which I believe is functioning correctly.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Probably head gasket. Whats the miles?
     
  12. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    240 seems a bit high for 38 degrees operations. Could that K-seal partially clogged your radiator?
    Well you'll find out in the summer months, if the car will consistently overheat.
    Your radiator fan should be turning at that temperature - it may be dead.
     
  13. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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    It's probably a bad head gasket and engine coolant pump.
     
  14. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    If You get the car really hot. And then you stop undo the bolts that'll allow you to lean your fans back so you can get your hand and run it across the lower core of the radiator assembly the upper one is for the inverter cooling and if you run your hand across that radiator core notice any cool spots usually they're in the middle That's the area of the radiator that's plugged by something whether it's the KC or whatever that area is plugged that area is not doing anything to cool the coolant in the radiator It's only getting cooled out on the edges where it's burning your hands That's where the coolant is flowing so you see at the top and the bottom of that center those little four five tubes at the most that's all the flowing from one side to the other so it's dwelling so long in the system it's not pushing the heat off I guess and then I guess you'll slow down and maybe there's not as much pressure on the system or something and it won't like the lighter it seems to cool take a look and see if something like that's going on of course the head gasket for this 2Z engine is the normal thing The KC would probably go to the head gasket and trying seal up the small drip that's quenching the fire when you start the car and have that death rattle in the morning so now you don't have that or at least as much but you're not going to seal a head gasket up generally by putting stuff in the water You might mitigate it a little bit but it's not fixed.
     
  15. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Well, you just added more work, and possibly money by putting that "stuff" in the coolant.
    Now you have to clean out the radiator, real fun, and the heater core, more fun.
    And clean out the block, and all coolant lines, and possibly damaged the coolant pump.

    Just except that you have a bad head gasket. If you caught it early, you'll only need to replace it.
    And hopefully the head won't be warped. And a rod is not bent....

     
  16. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    I do have an IR laser thermometer so I think I can measure tps throughout the radiator. Maybe that did get clogged.
     
  17. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    I did the coolant reservoir/combustion gas test and the green liquid turned blue, not yellow. Yellow is supposed to indicate the presence of combustion gases. This doesn't rule out broken head gaskets, etc. but does indicate that at least the combustion gas is not getting into the coolant at this point. Some of my confusion here is that it ran OK for 20K miles after I cleaned the EGR system, then developed the miss/hesitation on startup that sometimes goes with a head gasket and coolant migrating into cylinders.
     
  18. donzoh1

    donzoh1 Active Member

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    I was thinking a dead fan would set a code but do not know about that.
     
  19. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    The Pruis is different. I don't think anyone has reported coolant in the engine oil.
    So that test is pretty much worthles for a Prius.
    Get a pressure tested and put in on the overflow tank.
    Remove the spark plugs, put pressure on the tank. It SHOULD hold that pressure, it
    should not go down. If it does, you have a leak somewhere.
    With pressure applied, look inside the cylinders. Purchase a cheap bore camera you and use
    with you iPhone or iPad and insert the camera in each cylinder. If you start #1, you will likely
    see coolant seeping in close to #2 cylinder. And maybe the others three. It seems most gaskets
    fail between cylinders #1 and #2.

    When the gasket first starts to fail, coolant will seep into the cylinder when the engine cools down.
    That's why it knocks on cold starts. When it gets worse, it will knock when warm.

     
    #19 ASRDogman, Dec 9, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2023
  20. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    What I noticed I do see on the 2Z Atkinson engine when it is starting to fail and it's already rattled maybe one time let's say If you start monitoring your oil not because you're losing any If you look at the very top of the stick about I'll measure it tonight but it's about 3 in above the crosshatch full mark you will start to notice a brown dot start to form on the dipstick what that is is coolant vapor and oil and it's collecting where vapor would be down in that girdle pan area so that sticky mess that sticking to your oil dipstick is out of the oil area and in the vapor area and the drips that you're getting overnight into your cylinder as your engine cools down or during the day whatever shift you work. That vapor settles on the stick right where I'm talking about I'll take a picture of it and forward it to somebody who can make it post I guess I've been monitoring this in a 2010 2 Z set up right now. It is in rotation here driving daily and it is failing there is no question about it we're running zero pressure in the cooling system as of 4 weeks 5 weeks ago made a huge difference car runs very differently without pressure pushing the drips into the cylinder while the car is sitting and cooling but still we're on borrowed time . Replacement car ready to go in rotation as soon as we can blow this one up