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Featured Toyota, a hybrid pioneer, struggles to master electric vehicles

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Nntw, Sep 20, 2023.

  1. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    Toyota, a hybrid pioneer, struggles to master electric vehicles - The Globe and Mail


    JACK EWING AND BEN DOOLEY
    THE NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
    PUBLISHED 4 HOURS AGO
    7 COMMENTS
    Rachel Culin considered herself a Toyota loyalist, one of millions of people who appreciated the company’s reliable and fuel-efficient hybrids. But she recently bought an electric Chevrolet Bolt to replace her Toyota Prius because the Japanese auto maker had been too slow when it came to selling electric vehicles.

    “Where are the options for those people who love Toyota?” Culin, a resident of Mesa, Arizona, said. “It’s really sad.”

    Once the leading brand for environmentally conscious car owners, Toyota has failed to keep up with changing consumer preferences and a push by governments around the world to greatly reduce the burning of fossil fuels, the main cause of climate change.

    The company and the Japanese auto industry are facing the biggest business challenge they have confronted since becoming global giants in the 1980s. How they respond could determine whether they remain at the top of the auto industry or become afterthoughts.

    Toyota, the world’s largest auto maker, is the nucleus of power for the country’s large auto industry. It has alliances with smaller auto makers such as Subaru and Mazda and wields enormous influence over government officials and industry groups. The company is also a major employer in the United States, with nearly 30,000 workers in Kentucky, Indiana, Texas and other states.

    Its business decisions can have far-reaching economic and environmental implications. Toyota arguably did more to improve fuel efficiency and cut emissions than any other established auto maker by pioneering hybrid cars that augment a gasoline engine with a battery and an electric motor. But having staked so much on hybrids, it has moved slowly to cars that produce no tailpipe emissions.

    That has opened room for Tesla and BYD, a Chinese auto maker, to challenge Toyota’s dominance by offering appealing and affordable battery electric cars. Toyota has lost market share in the United States, and its sales in China have fallen.

    Japanese car makers have been here before. But last time they were the insurgents.

    In the 1970s, with fuel prices soaring, Americans began replacing gas-guzzling cars with small, fuel-efficient Japanese models, challenging the dominance of General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler.

    Toyota’s manufacturing methods became synonymous with manufacturing efficiency, and many factories adopted what became known as the “Toyota way” or “Toyota method.”

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    Today, Toyota is the one learning from rivals. The company is adopting techniques from Tesla. In China, it has teamed up with BYD in the hope of absorbing its electric motor and battery technology.

    “The stage of the battle has changed,” said Sanshiro Fukao, a senior research fellow at the Itochu Research Institute, and “the Japanese auto industry in particular has been very slow to act.”

    Toyota may no longer be able to take its time.

    During the pandemic, the global automotive market passed a milestone that caught the world’s major auto makers flat-footed. In 2022, sales of electric vehicles surged nearly 70% to 7.7 million, surpassing those of hybrid-electric vehicles for the first time as demand skyrocketed in China, according to IDTechEx, a market research consultancy.

    Toyota remains highly profitable, earning $8.9 billion in the quarter that ended on June 30. Last year, it sold 10.5 million vehicles, eight times as many as Tesla. But fewer than 1% of the cars it sold were fully electric vehicles.

    The absence of electric vehicles has been especially costly in China, the world’s largest car market. In July, Toyota’s sales in China were down over 15% from a year earlier.

    In the United States, Toyota’s sales have increased, but less than other auto makers. From June to August, the company’s share of the passenger car market slipped to 13.8% from 15.1% a year earlier, according to market research firm Cox Automotive.

    The story is much the same for other Japanese auto makers such as Honda, Mazda and Subaru. Even Nissan, which began selling the Leaf electric car in 2010, has fallen behind, failing to produce a car that could rival Tesla’s Model 3 in range, performance or design. Nissan accounted for less than 2% of the electric car market in the United States in the first half of the year. In China, it expects sales could drop by almost one-quarter in the current fiscal year.

    In May the International Council on Clean Transportation, a nonprofit organization, rated the 20 largest auto makers on their progress toward zero emissions. Five of the six companies with the lowest scores were Japanese: Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda and Suzuki.

    Foreign auto makers in China produced electric models designed to placate regulators rather than appeal to consumers, said Christopher Richter, senior research analyst at CLSA, an investment firm.

    “They didn’t make them as great as they could, and they were behind the learning curve,” he said.

    Toyota has tacitly acknowledged that it has fallen far behind Tesla and BYD. The decision in January by Toyota scion Akio Toyoda to step down as CEO was widely seen as a recognition that the company needed new leadership to navigate the transformation of the auto industry.

    The sense of urgency was compounded by the Shanghai auto show in April, said Tatsuya Otani, a journalist who has spent decades reporting on the Japanese auto industry.

    Chinese vehicles at the show featured onboard controls and entertainment options that made them look more like iPhones on wheels than traditional cars. Japanese executives were stunned to see how much progress their Chinese rivals had made, Otani said.

    Toyota declined to make executives available for interviews.

    The only all-electric Toyota sold in the United States is the bZ4X, a sport utility vehicle that the company recalled last year because faulty bolts could cause the wheels to fall off – an embarrassing misstep. In China, the company also offers an electric sedan, the BZ3. (Toyota’s Lexus division sells one fully electric model in the United States and two in some countries.)

    On returning from Shanghai, Toyota executives ordered employees to rush out a presentation on the company’s plans for its electric vehicle production. Toyota shared the plan less than two weeks before the company’s annual meeting, where shareholders, angered by the slow progress on battery-powered cars, proposed a resolution pushing the company to disclose its climate change lobbying.

    The measure did not pass, but the rare expression of dissent was an indication of how Toyota, once praised as a paragon of clean tech, had fallen out of favour.

    “They just are not moving quickly enough to EVs at a time when that is where the market and the planet are going,” said Brad Lander, the comptroller of New York City, which owns more than $100 million in Toyota stock through its pension funds and backed the resolution.

    The company has disputed that characterization, arguing that hybrid cars can help reduce carbon dioxide emissions more and faster than battery electric vehicles, which remain too expensive for many buyers.

    Factoring in a cleaner manufacturing process for hybrid cars and the limited availability of critical battery materials, such as lithium, hybrids are a safer short-term bet, Toyota executives have said in recent public statements.

    In Washington, the company has called for less stringent auto emission limits, saying in July that a proposed new standard “underestimates key challenges including the scarcity of minerals to make batteries, the fact that these minerals are not mined or refined in the U.S., the inadequate infrastructure and the high cost” of electric vehicles.

    “When they do math, the effect on the environment is far greater for hybrids,” said Jeffrey Liker, a professor emeritus at the University of Michigan and the author of several books on Toyota. “In addition to that, they make a whole lot more money.”

    Sales of all-electric vehicles are growing faster than sales of hybrids. But some analysts predict that hybrid sales will surge as would-be electric vehicle buyers worry that the public charging network is inadequate and unreliable. If that happens, Toyota’s strategy could be vindicated.

    Anita Rajan, general director of the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association in the United States, said Japanese auto makers were biding their time until they could make electric cars that were as reliable and affordable as the gasoline vehicles.

    “I don’t know if there’s a benefit in being first to market with these vehicles,” Rajan said. “I think it’s how you’re entering the market and the thoughtfulness that you show for your customers.”

    In Toyota’s home market, consumers have shown little appetite for battery electric cars, and the government has been reluctant to aggressively push for change in a profitable industry.

    That could be a problem for Japanese car makers, which have traditionally honed their technology at home before marketing it abroad, said Kazutoshi Tominaga, a managing director at Boston Consulting Group, which has worked with Japan’s trade ministry to shape national electric vehicle policy.

    “If Japan, as a market, doesn’t shift to electrification, we don’t have a place to test the product,” he said.

    Yet BYD has opened 10 dealerships in Japan and plans to have 100 by the end of 2025. The company went so far as to release a video in August calling on Chinese auto makers to “demolish the old legends,” widely interpreted as a reference to Japanese and Western auto makers.

    On a recent Sunday, prospective buyers waited patiently to take a BYD SUV for a spin around the Tokyo neighbourhood Ikebukuro. Salespeople were quick to point out the car’s eligibility for thousands of dollars in subsidies from Japan’s trade ministry, which has allocated $90 billion to promote battery electric cars.

    Two nearby Toyota showrooms were largely empty.

    Customers are “satisfied” with the current options, said Masaki Nagasawa, the deputy manager of a Toyota dealership in Tokyo. “For people who are wavering, subsidies are an incentive to buy,” but most customers are anxious about electric cars’ range and prefer hybrids, he said.

    Toyota has said it is working on new production techniques and innovative battery technology that would increase its cars’ range and reduce the time it takes to charge them. The company has said that its lineup will include 10 new all-electric vehicles by 2026 and that it will aim to sell 3.5 million of them annually by 2030.

    Speaking on earlier this month in Tokyo after the unveiling of a new luxury plug-in hybrid vehicle, Simon Humphries, who is in charge of branding and design and is a director on Toyota’s board, said the company was releasing new electric options “month by month, year by year.”

    But, he added, while there is an “urgency” to introduce new battery-powered cars, “there’s urgency in every segment.”

    Electric vehicle companies are moving fast.

    Tesla is on track to sell nearly 2 million electric cars this year and is building a factory in Mexico, where it is expected to make a car that sells for around $25,000. In the United States, the company’s Model 3 sedan already sells for about as much as a comparably equipped Toyota Camry after federal and state incentives are taken into account.

    BYD is rapidly expanding outside China, including in Europe, Latin America and Southeast Asia. Its extensive electric lineup includes models that are cheaper than Toyota’s most affordable sedans and a mammoth luxury SUV that sells for around $150,000.

    Just as Apple, Google and Samsung quickly displaced Nokia and BlackBerry in the mobile phone business, some analysts say, Tesla and BYD could be so far ahead in making electric cars by 2026 that Toyota might struggle to catch up.

    But Japanese officials are more sanguine.

    People own cars longer, so the transition will not be as fast as with cellphones, said Naoki Kobayashi, a deputy director of the trade ministry’s automobile division.

    He acknowledges that Toyota faces a big challenge, but, he added, “unlike with smartphones, we’ve still got time.”
     
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Maybe read the "how to post" links ..... where the Moderators suggest putting a few lines in yer thread - rather an entire article. Anywho .....

    It's hit job - op-eds like this that will likely kick the company into overdrive to catch up with the world's automakers already outperforming their all electric Fleet. Go Toyota!
    .
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I have hated this false narrative for so long:

    Once the leading brand for environmentally conscious car owners, Toyota has failed to keep up with changing consumer preferences and a push by governments around the world to greatly reduce the burning of fossil fuels, the main cause of climate change.

    I'm too cheap to be 'a green.' But this is a Murdoch propaganda publication that in the Sunday Mail once claimed Sudbury Canada was a hell scape from Prius nickel mining. A lie then and like this, anti-Prius and anti-EV slander.

    With apologies to our more environmentally members who like Elon Musk spend their lives pursuing the Sisyphus task of reducing man made global warming:
    upload_2023-9-20_8-33-43.png
    Only Musk is actually making it possible to move the needle. Coal is trending down and renewables plus EVs are trending up.

    So many environmental efforts resemble:
    upload_2023-9-20_8-42-7.png
    But at least headed in the right direction.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Sep 20, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Whoops, there goes another rubber-tree plant
     
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  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source:

    Fifteen Tesla vehicles were lit on fire at a car dealership in Frankfurt, Germany, this week, and a radical group of environmentalists has claimed to be behind the act of arson.

    With the incident alone, this gang of morons is probably responsible for more pollutant emissions than they can ever counter with their so-called activism.

    upload_2023-9-20_9-3-15.png

    Bob Wilson
     
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  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    How do we know it's environmental terrorism when it could also be the stigma of wealthy people able to afford 'expensive' cars when the terrorists can't afford 'em ......

    Rather than seek the end of inequity by getting off their dead ars & working ... anger & Tantrums & acting out is easier - because everyone knows how well just giving away free stuff works so well.

    Even monkeys experience anger over preceived inequity - & will throw tantrums - as this experiment shows




    .
     
    #6 hill, Sep 20, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
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  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The thing is, they still can't even produce enough hybrids. We're heading into Q4 of 2023 and there's still a 1 year wait for some models.

    And, I can't find the video now, but Akio or the chief engineer said that the smaller 66kWh battery was chosen for the balance between range, weight and cost. The last part bugs me because in the Canadian market, the bZ4X is not cheaper feature-to-feature (esp. at launch. Since then, VW, Hyundai and Kia have raised their prices significantly so we'll what Toyota does for 2024). It may be $100 less than a base ID.4 but move up to the bZ4X LE and the ID.4 Pro with the larger battery handily beats it in range and charging speed (as of Sep 2023).

    Then you have this

    Toyota China: bZ4X pure electric SUV dropped 4,300 USD, starting at 24,800 USD

    Ok their base bZ4X has the smaller 50kWh battery but the equivalent "FWD Long Range" which uses the same battery as the US version starts at the equivalent of US$29,100. Their top trim "Four Wheel Drive Ultra" starts at US$37,600.
     
  8. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    AFAIK, BC and Quebec are the only provinces where you can buy the bz4x.

    I'd originally thought I'd be buying a bz4x, but unavailability in Ontario, and the lackluster reviews, caused me to place an order for a Prius Prime.

    My salesman says I'm the first person on their list for a bz4x- when it becomes possible for them to order one.

    Not so sure I want one after all.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    rachel culin and i think exactly alike, chevy bolt on order, prius to trade after 20 years of toyota, i'm running out of time
     
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Unless you're taking the L FWD or LE FWD, probably not. The CATL battery AWD model charge time is terrible. At best, it's a short distance (say 400-500km) road trip car with one charge where you can eat while it charges and then charge overnight at your destination.

    There's a bZ4X taxi here... no idea if it's the LE FWD or XLE AWD model (all I know is it had the 18" wheels). Good luck to the drivers.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    How much cheaper was the gen4 Prius Prime in the US than other markets?

    Toyota needs to sell these cars in China, where they might be facing, um, historical headwinds compared to domestic and other brands. Here, they see people paying large upcharges for the Primes.
     
  12. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    From Car and Driver

    Toyota has not been shy about its begrudging migration to EVs, saying limited raw materials for batteries should be used in smaller chunks in hybrids or plug-in hybrids. It's clear the company isn't looking to sell many bZ4Xs, as it took the same approach it did with the low-volume GR86 sports coupe, sharing development costs with Subaru, whose Solterra is a twin to this mid-size SUV.

    The bZ4X is unremarkable in every way, as though Toyota is architecting a self-fulfilling prophecy, proving that hybrids are better by delivering a mediocre EV. So-so applies equally to the bZ4X's range and acceleration. Adding the optional second motor, as in our Limited AWD test car, ups horsepower by only 13, and EPA range is a maximum of 252 miles in front-drivers. Our 222-mile all-wheel-drive test car went just 160 miles in our 75-mph highway range test.

    Although the back seat is roomy for adults, and the cloth treatment on the dash is a cut above, the ride quality isn't great, the driver's area is cramped, and the steering wheel must sit unusually low for the driver to see the gauge display. Optional radiant heat that warms front occupants' legs is the rare distinctive feature. Presumably, this lessens climate-control use, slightly extending the limited range.

    Early EVs that mainstream automakers created seemingly just to meet zero-emissions requirements and with marginal customer appeal are dismissively referred to as "compliance cars." This is also a descriptor that fits the bZ4X quite well.
     
    #12 Nntw, Sep 20, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
  13. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    #13 Nntw, Sep 20, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2023
  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Compared to Europe? Quite a bit (although I don't know what the exchange rate was back then so I'm just using today's one (1 USD = 0.938 Eur). Compared to Canada, almost the same.

    US launch prices ex. TTL

    Plus: $27,100
    Premium: $28,800
    Advanced: $33,100

    Canada (excl. TTL). Exchange rate back then was about US$1 to CAD$1.20 ish.
    Base: $32,990
    Upgrade: $35,445
    Upgrade w/ Technology Package: $38,565

    Finland (excl 24% VAT)
    Active: 34,500 Eur
    Style: 36,040 Eur
    Premium: 40,049 Eur

    Germany (incl. 20% VAT)
    Base: 45,290 Eur / 37,741 ex VAT
    Executive: 47,190 Eur / 39,325 ex VAT
    Advanced: 52,690 Eur / 43,908 ex VAT
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I remember it being a more of a deal in North America than other markets.
    It could be down to exchange rates, but they could also be taking other things into account. Like the value of ZEV and CAFE credits. Which could be a factor in the pricing of BEVs for China.
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Absolutely it is. VW lowered their ID.4 prices in China too.

    Here, everyone's priced it higher to recoup R&D and given the short-ish supply, no one is eager to drop the price. Sure Hyundai and Kia EVs are starting to accumulate but that's more of a federal tax credit loss IMO.

    Up here, the EVs are priced to the federal EV rebate and given that the minimium threshold was raised this year by $10,000 and a new category for SUVs and minivans increased the threshold by $15,000 compared to the original threshold, this gave more buffer for manufacturers to increase their prices and still qualify for the rebates. Polestar was the most egregious and raised their prices by $2-3,000 immediately for the PS2. (And right now, there is inventory on the lot which is rare in Canada). BMW and VW increased it by introducing smaller battery models and pricing those at the same price as before (e.g. i4 eDrive35 priced the same as the eDrive40 and the 40 series went up by $6,000. ID.4 with the 58kWh battery introduced at the same price as the ID.4 Pro and the Pro went up by $5,000.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i feel like the feds are making a mistake with the tax credits.

    promoting ev's, and promoting made in usa are two distinctly different things, and should be promoted differentlygivethe consumer a wider choice at a better price, and work a different deal with mfg's for usa factories
     
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I agree but then I already own two EVs.

    EV ownership is an applied IQ test.

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if that continues to be the case, we will never succeed in weaning off fossil fuels. i know, i know, you're not a greenie, you're a cheapskate :p
     
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  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Toyota to speed up EV production, aims for over 600,000 vehicles in 2025, Nikkei reports | Reuters

    TOKYO, Sept 22 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor (7203.T) will speed up production of electric vehicles of its Toyota and luxury Lexus brands, the Nikkei newspaper reported on Friday.

    The Nikkei report said the Japanese automaker was likely to step up production of battery-powered vehicles over the coming years to reach annual output of more than 600,000 vehicles in 2025.

    Toyota declined to comment on the report.

    The company has previously said it targets sales of 1.5 million EVs annually by 2026 and 3.5 million, or about one-third of current global volume, by 2030.
    . . .

    Bob Wilson