Weaker cells

Where did you read that????
That's just the first step. You have to discharge them also, then charge again.
This is done a few times.
That is what I read on different sites that do this work.
If you put stronger cells with weaker ones, they weak ones will suffer.
And since they are not balanced, the computer doesn't understand what's happening and
see's weak cells.....

 

The attachment in post #1 shows 17 battery blocks. A 2010 prius has only 14 battery blocks. Something is not right!

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

No, no wak a mole for me.
It's never good to mix new batteries with old batteries.

When the Prolong system no longer keeps mine working,
I'll buy new batteries. Mine should last at least another year or two.
And they will cost less by then.

 

Usually, no, it does not work very well.

Is this car a 2010 Prius?

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

You can try a grid charger to top balance the entire battery pack. If that does not work, you will need to replace the entire battery pack with a refurbished one or a new OEM battery.

Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.

 

Thats not how you balance the batteries by filling them to the top. Theyll still be off.

The only way to balance properly is to connect all in parallel and leave them to level out their charges. Connected in series there is no possible way to accomplish this, since by filling one up, you have to fill the rest up as its a whole train.
If you replace even one cell, theyre all going to be off because that good cell will give a different reading to the computer and the computer goes off the perimeters of the lowest or highest state of charge of any individual cell, and NOT the average of the whole block system.
Overtime the cells will become unbalanced due to heat being uneven, which is why on prius app its a V pattern. Its important to take them out and rebalance them every so often when you see that happening or youll lose mpg.

To connect in parallel just hang them on a metal line with all of the + in a row, and the other side with the - in a row. Leave them like that for a day because its a slow process.

Just from my own personal experience, i bought new batteries thinking i could just replace the bad ones and itll work out. But i had no idea about balancing. So it was worse than before till i took all of them out and rebalanced, then it went back to giving normal 45 rated mpg. You CAN mix old and new batteries as long as the old ones can still hold charge well. The bad cells that cant will be the weakest link and what causes the engine to start running earlier than it should, wasting precious gas.

Yes, all new is better but who has $5k to buy from dealership? All third party only sell refurbished. So its not realistic for you to go this route as it makes more sense to just buy a new car at that point or ride it as is. That 10mpg loss is still cheaper in the longrun than shelling out $5k to save $3k on fuel cost in the next 100k miles.

 

First I need to include some terminology. We are talking about the Toyota NiMH OEM hybrid vehicle (HV) battery.
There are 6 (1.2v nominal) cells that are wired in series that make a module. The 6 cells are internal in the module and can not be replaced individually. A module can be replaced.
Two modules connected in series make a block. Toyota uses sensing wires on each block to monitor the voltage of the block.
There are 14 blocks (28 modules) connected in series in a Prius battery pack.

Now, I will address your post.
When you connect all 28 modules in parallel, you are NOT balancing the battery pack. All that you are doing is equalizing the voltages of the 28 modules to each other. This is NOT the same as balancing the battery pack.

You can learn about the battery reconditioning and balancing process by visiting Hybrid Automotive's website. I have included a few links: Battery Reconditioning Overview | Hybrid Automotive
Prolong Hybrid Automotive Battery Charger User Guide | Hybrid Automotive

An OEM battery costs about $2k, NOT $5k. This is just the cost of the battery pack. It does not include installation which most DIY'ers can do themselves. There is also a $1350 core charge when you buy from the dealership and this core charge is refunded to you when you take back the old OEM battery pack.

There are third party sellers of new battery packs for a Prius. See these links: https://projectlithium.com/
https://newpriusbatteries.com/

 

I always knew the grid xharger that cost almost a thousand was a fraud, thanks for debunking that overpriced placebo!

 

That is what i meant, you want to equalize the voltages. I thought that is what this post was about. I see you are talking about reconditioning them which i never heard it called balancing before as the proper name is reconditioning or refurbishing. I seen equalizing the voltages refer to balancing as well, especially if you are putting new modules with old.

As for the terminology, i am copying OPs terms implying he is refering to the modules as the cells. Perhaps i misred and he actually wants to balance the cells inside. If you were to open one up you would know once the inside is dry there is no chance of reconditioning the battery without readding its liquid property. It would be too much resistance for electrolytes to flow otherwise.

But for the context of this post, he said he replaced 10 through 14, which im guessing he replaced the modules. Its important to of equalized the voltages before hand because without doing that, how else would the modules do that while being connected in series?

 

In post #9, I was talking about using a grid charger to top balance the battery pack. You are talking about equalizing the voltages of all 28 modules in the battery pack. They are NOT the same thing. Equalizing the voltages in all 28 modules will help in delaying the trouble codes from appearing for a few day to a few months, but the battery pack will eventually trigger trouble code P0A80 and/or P301x or P302x (with x= number 1 to 9) because too large of a voltage difference between the blocks in the battery pack. In the long run, equalizing the voltages of the 28 modules will not help very much.

Top balancing of the battery pack is only one step in the process of reconditioning a battery pack. In post #9, I was recommending a top balance of the battery pack after newer modules are added to older modules in the pack.

Yes, the way I read post #1, he replaced the modules in blocks #11 to 14.

You top balance the battery pack with a grid charger. Did you read the Hybrid Automotive pages that I linked in post #11 about the balancing process?

 

I think only a few people have a grid charger. Im looking for ways that does not include having to use one. Swapping the bad ones with new ones will work as well after equalizing the voltages to make sure theres no voltage difference. Its the most cost effective method i can think of that will accomplish the task.

 

If you put any new cell, battery, brick, module, what ever you wish to call it, with older ones,
they will get more amperage/voltage to try to get them to match the new "ones" that quickly
recharge and use less amperage/voltage. Which will cause them to get hotter, which causes
more wear. And older ones discharge quicker, and will need to be charged more often. So they will
be cycled more than new ones. Again, causing more heat.

So, just because you CAN put new ones with old ones, it is a bad idea to do it. And potentialy dangerous.

No matter how you charge them, ONLY charging them, no matter how long you do it, only gets them to
each ones full charge. It really doesn't do anything.

The "reconditioning" through a slow low amperage charge to full, then a slow low amperage discharge.
Then a charge/discharge cycle, and 1 or two more times to a deeper discharge each time, is supposed to
brake/break off the by products of chemicals that naturally accures, which makes them like "new".

 

Yes i know its not perfect. Im just trying to swap out the weakest links first, as that alone greatly improves the effectiveness of the pack.

Now you mention reconditioning. Do you by any chance know of any device i can buy online that will recondition a module at a time? Im not looking to pay an arm or a leg for a grid charger, as nice and convenient one might be

 

This is they system that I have. I KNOW it works. At least it has worked for me.
And others.

I believe there are other ones out there, but they do cost more.

Sometimes, trying to "save" money, will cost you more in the long run. Playing wack a mole is
very poor costly methode of doing things. You will waste a lot time pulling that hundred pound
monster out, dissasembling it, pulling the batteries out, seperating them, installing the "other"
ones, assembling it, lifting that heavy thing back into the car, spending hours "testing" it.
Charging/discharging it a few times, HOPING it will work. Getting stuck on the side of the road
waiting for the tow truck to get you back home so you can do it all again. And spend how much
money replacing almost all the batteries, removing/installing the monster, dissasembling and assembling
it... What a nightmare!
If you have nothing but time, go for it.
But why not spend about $700 and get he prolong system, install the harness, and run it through the
complete cycle? You have a much better chance of that working, then wack a mole. And you spend about
95% of the time doing something more productive.
I understand finances play a part. It was for me. I charged it, and paid it off in about 2.5 months....