"EGR DELETE" Instructions

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Paladain55, Jun 17, 2023.

  1. Paladain55

    Paladain55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2021
    387
    150
    0
    Location:
    The South
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Afraid of head gasket issues and don't have the mechanical expertise or the wallet to have the EGR system cleaned regularly? Look into doing an EGR delete on the car. If you think your car has a misfire or pinging issue that you can feel and you think it is EGR related, a good way to diagnose the issue is to simply unplug the electrical connector going to the EGR valve. If the car starts to clear up immediately after unplugging the valve, there is your issue.
    Step 1: Pop the hood.
    Step 2: Look for the EGR Valve connected to the EGR cooler to the right side of the valve cover.
    Step 3: Look for the electrical connector going to the EGR valve.
    Step 4: Unplug the electrical connector from the EGR valve. This will give a check engine light which is what we want.
    Step 5: For verification that you have done it correctly I recommend getting an obd2 scanner like one of the wireless bluetooth dongles you can get from amazon that will connect to a code reading app on your phone to verify that you get a p0403 check engine code.
    Step 6: Thats it. You are done.

    Notes: Don't ever do any actual mechanical modifications to the EGR system to spoof a working valve. This is a great way to get the car running the wrong mixture thinking it has EGR when it doesn't and you will blow your head gasket due to pinging. I've seen a lot of crazy ways people have done it, don't do it!

    Stick to the unplugging the electrical connector and nothing more. This tells the car that the electrical circuit to the EGR valve has failed and the car now has no EGR flow into the engine anymore. The car will now run in a safer mode that is designed to run without EGR.

    If you ever unplug the 12v battery, to get it back into running correctly with your EGR delete, you will have to plug the EGR valve connector back in, get the car to start the engine with the EGR valve connected, and then with the 12v CONNECTED, go back and unplug the valve again.

    I'm not sure why but if you unplug the 12v battery and reconnected it with the EGR connector unplugged, the car will high idle around 1500 and shut off less. If you go back and plug the connector in and re disconnect it, it will start to idle and shut off like normal again.

    Fuel economy wise I get the same low 50s in the winter and high 50s in the summer with my EGR delete. If you ever need to pass an emissions check, all you need to do is plug the valve back in, reset the code with an obd2 scan tool, and ride around and get the obd2 readiness test to pass so when you go into your emissions check it will say obd2 ready and you have no check engine codes.

    We have done this with success for a couple years now on my car and friend's cars. No mechanical issues on any of these cars. No head gasket failures anymore.
     
  2. tankyuong

    tankyuong Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    1,555
    661
    0
    Location:
    Central MO
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    II
    I doubt it would prevent blown hg, there will still be exhaust gas blowing blowing through the system regardless
     
  3. JohnPrius3005

    JohnPrius3005 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    423
    233
    0
    Location:
    California and Hawaii
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    II
    How so?

    If the power removed default position of the EGR valve is “closed” then exhaust gas recirculation is eliminated by deleting the EGR.

    The theory of a clogged EGR system causing HG failure is that the cylinders are running at different mixture levels due to some getting exhaust gas and some getting none or less, causing detonation or increase of pressure beyond design limits of the HG.
    Sure the closed EGR valve may not be an airtight seal but at worse the flow of exhaust gas to the cylinders is a fraction of what it is with an open EGR valve.

    This of course is just my shade tree DIY mech theory. It would be great to hear from a highly educated Prius/hybrid expert.
     
    Bill Norton, TheMainePrius and bisco like this.
  4. MikeDee

    MikeDee Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    1,566
    596
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    You won't get detonation because the anti knock sensor prevents that.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    25,114
    16,371
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    The Toyota engineers know there is a knock sensor, and yet they are very careful to use fallback ignition timing to proactively avoid detonation whenever there is a trouble code indicating a problem with EGR.

    They apparently believe that just using a sensor to detect detonation and then stop doing it isn't enough, in the presence of a known condition contributing to it.
     
  6. Paladain55

    Paladain55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2021
    387
    150
    0
    Location:
    The South
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Typically if the valve is closed it does a pretty good job at sealing off entirely. Only from what I saw on mine at least the egr valve itself does fine at sealing off.
    There is a knock threshold and a long term trim for when it sees knock. Whether the knock threshold db limit is set too high or the trim amount in degrees is set too low, we will never know. Unless somebody knows how to log them. But we do know we can feel the knock and feel the car hesitate at a certain rpm, typically around 1300-2000 somewhere in there depending on car and current flow imbalances, and see there is no misfire code thrown as you're shitting yourself thinking "damn I better get rid of this car before it blows up" (we've owned many shit boxes and know what a misfire/knock feels like when its pretty serious), possibly even for thousands of miles on these cars. When it finally throws a misfire code, it seems like the car has typically already blown the head gasket on cylinder 1 or even cylinder 2 as well. Its always the farthest cylinders first.
    You would think a p0401 would save you but typically the car won't always get a low egr flow code before the individual passages clog.
    So the unreliability in the system to catch the issue before it blows a head gasket on cylinder 1, and the massive prevelance of blown head gaskets on these cars makes it a good idea to run without if you can.
    A lot of folks say over and over again "thermal cycling" but the gen 2 runs the same bounce around coolant temps and doesn't have head gasket issues.
    Toyota has also done a lot of revisions on the egr systems in the cars over time trying to remedy the issue. Larger passages, post cat egr instead of pre cat, pulling the egr into the intake into a central passage instead of from a far side making the passages more even in length, tsb's here and there, certain revisions forgoing egr etc...
    They are still somewhat figuring it out as well as we are.

    *The fact that we figured out you can diagnose a clogged egr knock if you are suspicious of it running rough by simply unplugging the egr valve electrical connector and it immediately clearing up is more or less what lead us down this path.
     
    #6 Paladain55, Jun 19, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2023
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    what is the difference between a clogged egr and a closed egr?
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  9. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    2,642
    1,140
    0
    Location:
    Northwestern S.C.
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    If the EGR valve is closed because the electrical connector is unplugged, the ECU will (may?) modify ignition timing to reduce knock risk. Not so, if the cooler is thoroughly clogged but the electrical connector is still in place.
     
    bisco likes this.
  10. Paladain55

    Paladain55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2021
    387
    150
    0
    Location:
    The South
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The egr valve and cooler clogging is usually the last thing to clog and it can adjust decently. The issue is when the manifold clogs it cannot adjust as each cylinder has a route that is uneven to the others.
    Manifold clogging seems to be what the car cannot handle. Manifold egr passages are the problem with these cars above all.
    Judging by toyotas larger and almost perfectly distributed post cat egr systems on the new priuses it seems they learned that from working on issues with the later revisions.
    The new priuses have a central intake manifold egr entrance with much more even total egr routing to each cylinder in the hope the system will be able to calculate flow better better able to catch all egr flow related issues and increase system reliability/longevitiy.
     
    TheMainePrius, bisco and CR94 like this.
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    so if the engine sounds normal after deleting the egr, it is either the valve, cooler or intake manifold passages?
     
  12. BrianStranded

    BrianStranded Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2021
    118
    78
    0
    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    The egr delete is the dumbest thing ever
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  14. Paladain55

    Paladain55 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2021
    387
    150
    0
    Location:
    The South
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Intake manifold passages
     
    bisco likes this.
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    25,114
    16,371
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Intake manifold passages are dumb, but a manifold without them would be dumber.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    is that easier to get to than the egr and cooler?
     
  17. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2012
    7,946
    3,152
    0
    Location:
    Honolulu, HI
    Vehicle:
    2011 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The newer Prius models also collect the EGR gases after going through the catalytic converter, the 3rd Gen gets it before the catalytic converter. Makes a huge difference.


    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    25,114
    16,371
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    By at least an order of magnitude ... think a 20 minute job as opposed to 200 or so.
     
    TheMainePrius likes this.
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    hmm, maybe i should attempt that. 5 minutes at a time bending over the engine bay, i might not wind up in traction.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    110,470
    50,208
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Mendel Leisk likes this.