STOP HAVING KIDS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Dec 8 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]359359[/snapback]</div>

Before I call you a liar - please prove that.

Thanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Dec 8 2006, 12:05 PM) [snapback]359330[/snapback]</div>

Oh, woe is me....

......... :lol:

 

The per-capita consumption of everything (energy, consumer goods, food etc.) is the highest in the USA compared with anywhere else in the world, but it's not too far behind in most developed countries, particularly western Europe. Of course, this is in line with our GNP - we produce a lot too.

Most estimates put the difference with undeveloped countries at around an order of magnitude, so I'll believe the 20 multiplier for India. My own experience in Africa suggests that many there consume (and pollute) even less.

Mike

 

india has greatly increased its consumption in recent years as more move out of the farms and into the cities. the ratio is probably around 10-12 to 1 now

 

I'll have a kid if I want to... I'll just remember Easter Island.

 

One of my favorite Onion articles
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49845

TedT

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TedT @ Dec 8 2006, 02:52 PM) [snapback]359435[/snapback]</div>

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

The purpose of life is to reproduce. Our fertility rates are not sustainable. Present human population is beyond carrying capacity. A rational person thinks and acts long-term . . . .

We have one child, a chosen child, not an "only" child. We make an effort to minimize our carbon footprint and model what we teach. We need more emphasis on quality and less emphasis on quantity.

Altruism is difficult in capitalism because the "territorial imperative" encourages the next person to rush in and take advantage of the resources and space that are "not being used."

Comments are correct. US population is at 300 million because of immigration, not native fertility. We, as described by Garrett Hardin, are "living on a life boat." Our life boat has some space, where many life boats (countries) are full and overflowing. We must take care of our life boat and our resources. A consequence of not living within carrying capacity is that our seemingly spacious life boat will overturn.

 

What do you think the China's communists would do to your family if your wife is having a twin?
Do they make you choose one to abort? Now, that is an easy decision to make...

 

OK, I agree this is the most serious problem ever created by the human race. It will almost certainly lead to the end of civilization as we know it. The real question is what can be done about it?

In this country we have two political parties that, each for their own selfish reasons, seem determined to increase the population as rapidly as possible. The tax system, the welfare system, immigration policies, religion, and numerous other institutions are all doing quite a bit to make things worse. When is the last time you heard a politician talk about reducing the population or even reducing the growth rate of the population?

I think all the things we do to help fight pollution and conserve resources are just "band aid solutions". There is nothing wrong with band aids but we need to start solving the real problem before it's to late, if it isn't already. When the worlds population doubles then doubles again, which won't take all that long, none of what we do will make any difference whatever.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 8 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]359401[/snapback]</div>

What stat exactly are you asking to him to prove? If it is the U.S. per capita consumption rate vs world average or that of India's average then that is easy enough to do. Before I start listing a ton of scourses for that info I'd just like clarification. Or is it the total U.S. consumption rate vs world average. I have the statistics (for consumption rates, ecological footprints, emmisions etc) for comparison to each developed country as well as the world average.


The Garrett Hardin article "Lifeboat Ethics - the case against helping the poor" is a horrid but rational way of thinking. I cannot agree or disagree with it because it makes sense as much as I feel it doesnt have to be that way.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ Dec 8 2006, 08:31 AM) [snapback]359309[/snapback]</div>

Hm, I have many friends, who would say exactly the same for those who do have children.... Living in the burbs, travelling with kids (and subjecting others to it, or not travelling at all, because of the kids, limiting one's social life, getting stuck going to parties with a bunch of "mommies" and "daddies" with no other interests in life but diapers and schools..., phew!

If the above quoted statement means that one actually "lives" for their children and considers the alternative (living for the adult joys of life, including partners, friends, exploration...) to be "the coldest,... most... inhuman,... depressing thing...," then it is nothing, but an indication of severe paucity of interests, and inability to experience and enjoy life for itself.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Dec 8 2006, 07:29 AM) [snapback]359274[/snapback]</div>

This is just stupid: it makes no logical sense. Life is a prerequisite for an individual being such, while having a kid, or a boat, or even a Prius -), is not. Similarly with the "medical care extending life" argument: extending sentient life, with awareness of itself, is very different from actively seeking to produce innumerable future (not currently existent) lives.

If you really want to do something for the environment, keep the Prius, but also have ONE child (or none,) and insist that any medical or other aid to countries with high population growth, be tied to promotion and implementation of family planning.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black2006 @ Dec 8 2006, 02:41 PM) [snapback]359535[/snapback]</div>

Good post.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Dec 8 2006, 11:09 AM) [snapback]359401[/snapback]</div>

Berman calling somebody else a liar.......

That strikes me as so off the wall I don't know where to respond. We could start a whole new thread of similar incongruities beginning with "the pot calling the kettle black."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black2006 @ Dec 8 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]359535[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, well, it's a big problem that U.S. aid to developing countries is not allowed to mention,uch less promote abortion.

Peace --

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(marjflowers @ Dec 8 2006, 04:11 PM) [snapback]359561[/snapback]</div>

I don't quit understand your post? You are not implying that family planning promotes abortion are you? All the of the family planning material I have seen usually centers on prevention in the form of abstinance, condoms, birth control, monthy timing of intercourse etc.. I'm just trying to understand your post better.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfly @ Dec 8 2006, 07:07 AM) [snapback]359267[/snapback]</div>

Sorry pal - last I checked it was still a free country and people should have whatever they can properly support and raise. And lest you have forgotten, the children of today will be footing the bill when your sorry butt is shriveled and gray in a nursing home, so you ought to be thankful for that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Black2006 @ Dec 8 2006, 05:41 PM) [snapback]359535[/snapback]</div>

You have just listed many (but certainly not all) of the reasons my wife and I choose to be child-free. Thanks for summing it up so well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Dec 9 2006, 03:13 AM) [snapback]359656[/snapback]</div>

Not my butt, they won't. I'll be paying for it myself. Investments combined with no expenses for diapers or college are a beautiful thing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ichabod @ Dec 8 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]359274[/snapback]</div>

TOUCHE'! with a capital "T".

Why are you adults still alive? Adults consume much more resources than children. Adults drive gas guzzlers, they vote for conservatives, and even make more children (horrors). And besides, overpopulation is so 1970's.

C'mon guys and gals, let's stick to Global Warming. That's the latest killer craze. Just buy my book and see my film and I'll show you we can beat GW too.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Dec 9 2006, 03:13 AM) [snapback]359656[/snapback]</div>

Yes, it's a free country. You can drive around in a Hummer, run your shower for an hour a day, or buy up whatever old growth forests the Department of Interior will let you and clear-cut them. It's your right. But just because you can doesn't mean you should.