Opinion on Reddit: Toyota ruined the Prius

What's the difference between Corolla Cross and Corolla Hatchback?

I don't even know if I have ever seen Avalon in the wild. I believe it is a rank above Camry, so yes Crown might be the right alternative???

 

You caught me totally flat-footed on that. Googled and found this:

2022 Toyota Corolla vs. Corolla Cross: What's the Difference?

Will give it a read.

Addendum: ok, contender #1 not hatchback. Anyway, might still be helpful.

More to the point:

Compare Toyota Corolla Cross vs Toyota Corolla Hatchback | CarBuzz

Same engine, the Cross more "trucky"?

 

Here you go. I posted this in another thread. 5th gen Prius is much quieter compared to the 2015 CT200h and 2022 Corolla hatchback. It’s no Lexus LS but definitely quieter.

 

One isn't available as a hybrid in North America, and the other should have been named lil'Rav4.

Unless you want the Avalon for the additional space it had over the Camry. The Crown Crossover is essentially the same volume as the Camry inside.

 

From Toyota's official site, for 2023 models, Corolla Hatch is pure petro whereas Corolla Cross is available in Hybrid. The Corolla Cross is a crossover style, and it is available electrified as Corolla Cross Hybrid with 45/38 mpg starting at $27,970. I guess, it is a little brother of Rav4. Whereas the Corolla Hatchback is available only as a pure gas engine model, but at a much more affordable starting price.


Well, If Toyota ever makes either of them into a plug-in, I may be interested, but as is, I have no interest, unless I am really pressed to buy a daily driver this year and have no luck finding Bolt EV.

 

i feel the same as the o/p. all excited when it was introduced, but now that we know many of the details, i've lost interest.
all i wanted was for them to lower the hatch floor on the prime like the gen4 hybrid. while they did that, they decided the car was too wide for some reason.
i agree that it was designed to bring in new buyers. time will tell.

 

The Avalon was a Camry with a bigger trunk and more leg room.

The Crown is Toyota's alternative, but is a bit more expensive with things that I don't find necessary like standard AWD and up to 340hp. I don't even floor it in my 200hp Avalon.

 

As much as I like the “look” of the Gen 5 Prime, the more I drive my Gen 4 Prime, the more I think it is a really brilliant car. Not changing anytime soon, after 30k miles, 280 mpg average over that time, and no issues except for the previous multimedia system reboots that haven’t occurred again recently. Am going to upgrade the dash corner speakers for my XLE, to see if the sound can be improved a little bit.

 

Sometimes I get paranoid about what car I'm going to get next. There are zero used cars in the local ads. There used to be a couple pages of them. But the reality is I want to keep my Avalon as long as possible, and I'm still wanting to fix the Prius I bought two years ago and never drove.

 

I don't even care that much about the cargo space, I'm just really, REALLY turned off by the design of the new Prius. I think it looks terrible compared to my 2021 Prius Prime, like they tried to make it look like a Dodge Dart or something. This one is an easy pass for me (although the updated technology and TSS 3.0 seem worthwhile).

 

I’m sure that Toyota will sell every one of them they build, but for me it doesn’t have the unique look that made the Prius a Prius. Now it’s just another car in a very large pack of cars.

 

I love my Gen 2 2008 Prius and have never considered them ugly. That generation has had epic reliability. I guess it's all a matter of taste and values, but I love its relative space and would also hesitate to give up a hatchback.

 

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

 

Toyota caught on that the typical buyers of Avalons were 70 year old white men. This is not considered a sexy demographic. The ad I saw for the Crown:

shows a young, ethnically ambiguous woman, who gets treated with respect because she drives a new Crown. I don't know if its the same car with different sheet metal and a two-tone paint job, but it's clearly a reach towards a different buyer. It still has that massively ugly giant front grill.

 

I do miss not having BSM and the latest TSS, but not worth the cost and hassle of a new car.

Made my first mods to my Gen 4 PP XLE, changing to Hella horns for a much more satisfying “honk you” and Kicker 46CSC354 dash corner speakers for improved sound. Very inexpensive and easy plug and play upgrades (with the right adapter harness for the speakers).

 

You know what happens to old white men? They become dead white men. And dead white men don't often buy cars.

Avalon sales in the US were horrible over the last eight years. Sales first peaked in 2000 at over 100k, then had a more recent peak at 70k in 2013(just after a redesign). But sales slumped after the newness wore off, and they never recovered. Toyota even tried updating it again in 2019 and sales just kept sliding. Under 30k just before the pandemic, and dropped under 20k during it.

Facts are simple: Americans(young and old) just don't want (big)sedans anymore. I disagree with the move because I personally dislike SUVs and trucks unless you have a real(not imagined) need for one, but I can't argue that the rest of the country doesn't agree with me. Toyota's in the business of selling cars, and CUVs/SUVs/trucks are what the market wants. To argue otherwise is to ignore reality.

Just for reference, here's a list of various Toyota sales figures in the US over the last couple decades. I just went in increments of 5 years, except using 2019 instead of 2020 because pandemic. I tried to pick a couple vehicles of each type: sedans, SUVs, trucks, plus a minivan and the Avalon. Sales numbers are roughly rounded. There are anomalies in places because of new/old models, or annual production runs that were curtailed for one reason or another, but it all evens out in the end.

Code:

            2000  2005  2010  2015  2019  2022
Corolla     230k  340k  265k  360k  305k  220k
Camry       420k  430k  330k  430k  340k  295k
Sienna      105k  160k  100k  140k   75k   70k
Rav4         55k   70k  135k  315k  450k  400k
Highlander   85k  140k   90k  160k  240k  225k
Tacoma      150k  170k  105k  180k  250k  250k
Tundra      100k  125k   95k  120k  110k   95k
Avalon      105k   95k   30k   60k   30k   12k

Hard to justify keeping the Avalon.

 

Avalon sales were around the same level as the Impala and Taurus when those were cancelled. I guess Toyota figured they could still sell some as the last option, until the Crown was redesigned.